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New rule - implemented immediately...

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New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:16 am

Much controvery on the legitimacy of the surpise onsiude kick.,..

I have just discovered a 75% chance way of recovering an onsidie kick...

The return team has to be set up in ONSIDE DEFEND - aka HANDS TEAM... u would think that u would have the best chance to recover an onside kick by going with a onside kick! AND THATS INTUITIVE BUT INCCORRECT... if the other team is in ONSIDE DEFEND aka HANDS TEAM - your best chance to recover is to go with s standard middle kickoff and do a SURPISE ONSIDE KICK - - angle the ball as far away from the hands team as u can - and let the meter go to the power distance just as it changes colors from red to orange (well before the standard kicking area) - the kicker will pooch the ball in the middle - there is 1 player who could possibly grab the ball , if he is a low awareness player U WILL LIKELY GET THE RECOVERY if he is a high awareness chance the recovery team has a better chance BUT U STILL WILL GET THE BALL WELL OVER 50% OF THE TIME...

i tried this in practice mode - and it works consistantly even with crummy kickers - THIS SHOWS ME THAT THIS IS A CLEAR GLITCH... and using a surpise onside kick vs a hands team (makes no logical football sense) - and is clearly done just to utilize the glitch advantage described here... THEREFORE DOING A SURPISE ONSIDE KICK VS A HANDS TEAM IS OUTLAWED AND AGAINST THE RULES!

there has been much debate about the legitamacy of the surpise onside kicks - sure its something that definitely happens in the NFL - but much controversy is always associated with it - Sure vs a standard kickreturn team you are unlikey to be successful with a surpise onside kick - and when u are successful, its clearly a lucky play - i am thinkn that it may just be easier to BAN SURPRISE ONSIDE KICKS COMPLETELY - that way we dont have to worry about the situation described above ever happening -

what do u giys thiunk√Č - we obviosly need the rule mentioned above - but should we just ban surpise onside kicks completely√Č
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by VanillaSmooth on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:19 pm

I have had ppl use surprise onside kicks on me before but they have never recovered. Now the glitch that u describe when both teams are in their onside kick formations then yes i do believe that should be outlawed
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by General_Hon on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:33 pm

I'm fine with the great field position I get when people try that on me but as far doing it vs hands team that is completely unrealistic and not sim. As a general rule for sim, I believe if you don't see it on Sunday you shouldn't see it here.

I have never seen an onside kick out of a standard kickoff formation vs hands team. Doesn't make sense to do so, you're out of position to recover it if you're the kicking team. It shouldn't be allowed.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:04 pm

General_Hon wrote:here.

I have never seen an onside kick out of a standard kickoff formation vs hands team. Doesn't make sense to do so, you're out of position to recover it if you're the kicking team. It shouldn't be allowed.


YOU ARE aBSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THIS IN REAL FIOOTBALL but this is MADDEN...
Gop to practice mode and do the surpise onside kick vs a HANDS team - the results are clear - u get the ball recovered at an unrealistic rate - ITS A HUGE GLITCH...
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by Mjkight on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:16 pm

I applaud Green for acting immediately and accordingly...i actually had this happen to me and it blew me away.

Just the idea that a suprise onside kick can be used in a definite onside kick situation to recover the kick against a hands team is unbelievable...the idea alone is beyond unsim.

I went into practice mode and recovered my first 3 attempts it was crazy. Anybody that would use this tactic in a "SIM" leauge shoud ask themselves if they have properly thought out the idea of sim. Again good rule and glad it was made fast.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:22 pm

I_LovE_AreolaS wrote:I have had ppl use surprise onside kicks on me before but they have never recovered. Now the glitch that u describe when both teams are in their onside kick formations then yes i do believe that should be outlawed

to clarify aereola - for this glitch to work - the recieiving team has tro be in ONSIDE DEFEND aka HANDS TEAM - and the kickoff tewam does a STANDAARED MIDDLE KICOFF - than does a surpise onside kick (with the kicking style described above).... just wanted to be sure u knew what i was talkn about...
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by Mcnair2wycheck on Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:46 pm

I definitely think it should just be banned completely.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by General_Hon on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:23 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:
General_Hon wrote:here.

I have never seen an onside kick out of a standard kickoff formation vs hands team. Doesn't make sense to do so, you're out of position to recover it if you're the kicking team. It shouldn't be allowed.


YOU ARE aBSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THIS IN REAL FIOOTBALL but this is MADDEN...
Gop to practice mode and do the surpise onside kick vs a HANDS team - the results are clear - u get the ball recovered at an unrealistic rate - ITS A HUGE GLITCH...

Just to clarify, I agree with you. I don't see the logic in going "surprise" onside kick when the other team is clearly not surprised at all, they have their hands team waiting for it. Doing so I think it obviously trying to take advantage of a glitch.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by weasel_ on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:05 pm

IT'S really ez to defend actually. All you have to do is controll the middle line backer in the fromt line of your kickoff return and get the ball your self. USER SKILLS PEOPLE!!! or is a"Sim". All about just watching the CPU play? 3 aspects of football guys. OFFENSE, DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS!!!! By making this illegall as well as no blocking CBS ad Creation points which I also don't understand at all, as well as the rule that to can't take a guy back to block on punts, And the Kickoff no swerving rule has completely phased out special teams play in theae leagues. HOW SIM IS THAT?!?!?!? SAINTS DID A SURPRISE ONSIDE KICK ON THE SUPER BOWL!!!! AARON HERNANDEZ TAKES HANDOFFS!!! IT'S FOOTBALL GUYS !!! Back to the issue at hand about the surprise o.side kicks. Before every kickoff Madden shows you what formation the kicking team is coming out in before you decide what coverage to be in the same way as on defense you get shown what type of personal is coming on to the field. If your LAZY and IMPATIENT and pick your coverage before I pick the type of kick I'm going to use either onside or kickoff I'm going to take advantage of you. ONLY TIME YOU SHOULD NE IN ONSIDE COVERAGE AKA HANDS TEAM IS WHEN YOU SEE THE KICKING TEAM COME OUT IN ONSIDE KICK FORMATION!!!!! ASUMIMG THINGS IN LIFE GETS YOU IN NOG TROUBLE!!!! So really EZ to defend the Onside kick with USER SKILLS which if you have some which it seems not many of the average and I say average SIM players do this tactic is very EZ to defend. You know Football teams practice things over and over t get good at them to make their plays have a higher percent chance to suceed. Making a play illegal just cuz you DON'T know how to defend it is negligent period. IF YOU ARE IN ONSIDE COVERAGE BEFORE THE OTHER TEAM PICKS HIS KICK AND THEY COME OUT IN A REGULAR FORMATION AND SQUINTING THE KICK AND RECOVER IT IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT FOR BEING A BAD COACH!!!! PERIOD AND THAT'S THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT!!!!

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:58 pm

well couple thing in respone to weasals arguement...

1 - The play is DESIGNED TO KICK TOWARDS THE SIDELINE - the problem is when iu pooch the ball up the middel - the players dont react to the ball like they are suppose to when the abll is kicked in the spot where the surpise onside kick intended it to go... - The fact that if u tae conrttrol of a specific player - And make a play is inconsequential... what is important is that surpise onside kicks should only be successful 5% to 10% of teh times TOPs - but when u do thgis pooch kick its well over 50% (and if perfected its like 80%) - THATS IS THE TIOTYAL DEFINITION OF A GLITCH - it wouldnt be a GLITHC if it was recovered close to the NFL standar - BUT ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE...

Lets make an example - WE DONT ALLOW GUYS TO PUT WR AT FB (for arguement sack lets assumne thats even possible to make thuis sub)... Its crazy to have HESTER line up as the 2 back and come out of the backfield for a pass - NO WAY THAT IS SIM - and it would be coinsidered GLITCH and is against our rules nevertheless using Weasal arguement - it should be allowed if u found a way to call a DIME or QUARTER defense and have a speed/cover CB man up on HESTER at the 2 back spot - ITS VERY LIKELY THAT THIS WOULD SHUT DOWN THAT GLITCH - but do u think thats reaSONABLE TO ALlOW HESTER AT FB? clearly its not - just as its clearly unacceptable to be able to run a surpise onside kick where u can be successful 50 to 80% of the time - when the actual NFL success rate is around 5 to 10%


I have more arguements coming - stay tuned - more will be added....
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by weasel_ on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:12 pm

Greener we are talking about 2 seperate plays. You are talking about coming out in onside and having the defense in hands and then pooch kicking. I've never seen anyone do that before. I'm talking about pooch kicking while I'm in kickoff and the defense is in kickoff coverage . 2 totally different plays.... What I'm talking about is totally defendable. The game doesn't let you put Devin Hester in at FB so that arguement is poor. This year you can't even put CBs in at WR which you used to be able to do. Alot of FB play TE and vice versa in the NFL and I don't understand the no TE at WR rule either. In The NFL Jermichael Finley lines up on the outside all the time. The TE is taking over the league and are the most versitile players in te NFL right now. Why do you dumb down these types of players in the LG? Aaron Hernandez is taking handoffa in playoff games but I can't use him at FB? Come on now.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by General_Hon on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:07 pm

Greener is stating it's not right to put a WR at full back, not a TE. I don't think he has a problem with a TE at FB, that's very realistic and the Bengals did that all season 3 years ago (I'm a big fan, sadly), because they weren't happy with their current FB so they cut them and went with a TE.

TE to FB is a natural sub, WR to FB is not. Doesn't make since because WR are not good lead blockers out of the backfield, TE are.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by weasel_ on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:09 pm

I know I agree with lo WR at TE but the game doesn't let you do that unless your really clever with calling audibles . Which is fine by me becaue you can only run so many plays arfter you do that.

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:35 am

Bro sure their are SOME TEs that can p[lay X and Y WR but for the most part thsi doesnt happen - so although it may occue - ITS NOT THE NORM - HENCE THE RULE...

I was just using the WR at FB as a demonstaration of how rediculous it is to do that... as it is totally crazy to think that 75% chance of gettn an surpise onside kicjkis SIM (and the factr that u know the obscure defense to that play is not an excuse that it should be allowed)

- Like i said, u could play a DIMe defense and man up a CB on that WR playn at FB and that could be a good counter - BUT THE FACT U COULD SCHEME AGAISNT THIS DOESNT MAKE IT SIM! - same goes with arguement for the onside pooch
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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

Post by weasel_ on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:30 am

Well since you never made a finall ruling on the play in the rules I feel as though I should not be punished. Also I dont see what is so obscure about using your MLB to guard against the squinting every kickoff. It's really ez to do and nobody has gotten one on me since .October. so it ain't no 75%. JUST MAN UP AND PLAY DEFENSE DAMN

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Re: New rule - implemented immediately...

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