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NEW QB SUB RULE

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NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by GREENERRRR on Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:47 pm

This hasnt been a problem in our leagues but i just ran into this and its a DEFINITE GLICTH 100% and can be easily fixed...

I was playn a player who CONSTANTLY subbed his ppocket passing QB in and out of the game with PRYOR - obviously PRYOR brings a unique skill set to the game with his speed that is fundementally different than the startn QB who is a pocket passer... Naturly i would counter the substitution of PRYOR with faster players at DT - DE - LB who have better pursuit rating (we are not worried about PRYOR throwing the ball medium or short because he is WEAK throwing there - so i take out my normall high MAN / ZONE cover LB and run / pass stop DL sub in the players mentioned previously!) BUT WAIT - I CANT MAKE THIS SUBSTUTIUON BECAUSE U DONT KNOW WHO THE QB IS UNTIL YOU HAVE CALLED YOUR PLAY AND DECIDED ON YOUR PERSONEL!

Obviosly in any game a coach can look into the huddle and know who the QB is before he decides on his defensive players and play - U CANT DO THIS IN MADDEN... and when guys sub in and out QBs with hugely different skill sets - and the defense doesnt have the ability to counter this adjustment - ITS A GLITCH...

I am not sayn that using a 2 QB system is bs... its a prooven football tactic but the defense has tpo know who they are playn... therefore i have come up with the following rule where players can use a 2 qb attack - but they cant use it in a way to G:ITCH their opponent...

SUGGESTED RULE:

When you have an 8 point or higher difference in speed rating of your QBs and you want to sub that QB into the game, U MUST TELL YOUR OPPONENT YOU ARE MAKING THE SWITCH... Obviously if this is going to be a a switch made often in the game, u will want to wear a MIC and tell him verbally... But if you are just making the switch a few times a game, pausing the game and sending a message is acceptable (b4 the game have the message "switchn qbs" saved as COPIED message - and in the subject bar PASTE the message and send it to opponent - takes 12 seconds at the most - i timed it... so its not that time consuming...)

* This rule can be waived at the beginning of the game if both players are in agreement...

* This rule does not need to be followed if offense gets up 4 scores and is subbing QBs in to protect starters from injury...



The way i see it - if the offense isnt tryn to GLICTH by making you GUESS at what QB is actually in the game - HE WONT HAVE A PROBLEM FOLLOWING THE RULE - if he is tryn to fool you - than he wont want the rule! Afterall, 90% of us have a MIC - and if u wanna play a continous rotating QB system - THATS COOL - but probably best to have a MIC... if its just a token switch a few times a game, pausing and sending that message which requires very lil effort is a reasonable expectation...


Bottom line - its a small inconvenience for offensives that use 2 QB system (with a wide speed rating) - but this small inconvience is acceptable when it ensures that the defense gets a GLITCH free game...


what do u think?
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by VanillaSmooth on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:37 pm

i think it is a very good rule and a good point. Only sugesstion is just b4 game if you know you will be using a 2 Qb system then let your opponent who the 2 QBs are so that they can prepare and know who to sub in when they get the message mid game saying QB CHANGE

Also maybe make a cap on how many times you can do this during game. Like 10 times per a game or 2-3 times a quarter. Just my 2 sense
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by McNoob on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 am

I don't like it.

Games are already long enough; having to constantly pause to let my opponent know that I'm subbing in my Wildcat QB would just frustrate both my opponent and me. Besides, I only have 5-6 (I forget exactly) pauses per game, so if I want to sub in the particular QB that many times, I have to waste my pauses. What if I truly need to pause the game for something important?

This subbing method could definitely be considering an exploit, but I feel like removing it would create less of a challenge. It should be up to me to figure out my opponents' tendencies based on box scores and perhaps even player reviews.

If I check my opponent's season stats and see two QBs sharing snaps, or a certain QB with a substantial amount of rushes, I'll figure out that he likes to change QBs and scramble around. It sucks in the sense that I won't know when to play Spy or sub in certain defensive players, but at the same time, it gives me the extra thrill of having to predict and adjust to the certain behavior.

It's just my opinion. I'm not saying you don't have a point, as I can fully understand your position. But I feel like we're heading down a slippery slope with this sort of rule.

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:45 am

slippery slope? Not sure what you mean... If anything this is stopping a clear glitch - and you dont have to pause if u have a MIC which i bet 90% of us do...

Only players that this situation is a disadvantage to are the REAL STUDENTS OF THE GAME - I like to analyze all my players attributes and i use them to their fullest potentials... I understand that not every guy would have a completely different personel set to counter a "wildcat" aka scrambling QB - but if i make the effort to find the personel to specialize in stopping these tactics (or at least in my mind i think they give me a better chance LOL!) , i should have the chance to use them in the right situation - i shouldnt be FORCED TO GUESS at who is going to be at QB - that doesnt make them game more challenging for me - that makes it farther away from a real NFL simulation...

I understand if u make this switch a lot - pausing the game could be difficult to implement - but switching a scrambling / wildcat QB in and out of the game with a pocket passer so that the defense doesnt know who he is facing until the snap of the ball - THAT SUCKS... and if your doing intentionally for an advantage - THATS SUCKS EVEN MORE!

uLTIMATELY IF U LIKE TO SWITCH QBS OFTEN (and we are only asking guys with a wide difference of speed rating - 8 or greater to follow this rule) - so if u have 2 qbs and their within 8 pointS of speed - u have nothing to worry about this rule - it doesnt apply to you... Nevertheless; if you just use a MIC - problem solved for everyone!

I know there may be a few players who employ a dual QB strategy (with a 8+ speed differential) who dont have a MIC and cant afford them - thats tuff,.,, In that regard the rule isnt so good - NOT SURE WHAT TO DO THERE -

is there any other way to signal your opponent prior to the defense calling their formation and personel?

Lets BrainStorm some ideas...

- Maybe tell the other team everytime u call a play without a TE, you will be playn with a scrambling QB...

- Maybe evertime u call a play with less than 12 seconds on play clock, its going to be a play with the scrambling QB...

* These are a couple suggestion of ways you could communicate this w/o pausing and w/o a MIC - would love to hear other ideas....

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by Dlew16 on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:26 pm

I dont like it.
In Chizz League i use a 3rd down QB.
The reason being is Kyle Orton is slower and he is a lot better on deep passes.
Gabbert (my 3rd down QB) has some speed(not much but better) and also has 99 Short throw accuracy and 95 medium throw accuracy which is much better than Kyle Orton.
Since using this tactic i havent lossed a game. So i really do not want this rule to ruin my playoff chances or my undefeated season.

However i would be in favor of the rule change if it was
A: okay to change QBs if it was only on third down
B: or okay to to tell the opponent before the game in a message "every third down regardless of the score and regardless of the distance to the 3rd down marker i will switch Orton out for Gabbert."

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:11 pm

Dlew16 wrote:B: or okay to to tell the opponent before the game in a message "every third down regardless of the score and regardless of the distance to the 3rd down marker i will switch Orton out for Gabbert."

thius would be acceptable - the other team would know who the QB is before he call his defense - i see no problem with this caveat
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by Mcnair2wycheck on Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:36 am

Mcnoob, why not just tell your opponent before the game that "All wildcat plays will be done with so and so at QB."?... I think that there should be some kind of rule so that players are not caught off guard, but I think that as long as it is clearly communicated in some manner then it shouldn't be a problem.

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by McNoob on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:57 pm

That would be easy enough, but that doesn't affect the rule being sought here. The Wildcat formation I like to use doesn't appear as "Wildcat", so my opponent still doesn't know which QB I'm using.

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by CassiusRocknRoll on Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:33 pm

You guys are writing tool much! That is the biggest piece of garbage rule tht I have ever heard. So I should have to tell u when I'm taking out Brandon Jacobs and subbing in woodhead so I can run the toss or screen or counter play...lol gtfoh with tht rule. GREENER YOU PACKAGE UR OLINE FOR RUN OR PASS PLAYS. at least thts what you told me.
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by Mos3ttiKid22 on Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:23 pm

No Go
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by chizz522 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:39 pm

I think it takes away a strong side of certian players teams. If they have two qbs they use and one is a speed guy, your saying you should tell the other guy when he is in? I think that it screws the guys that use this tactic. The whole point is to catch people off gaurd. If they have to tell you it will be pointless to use the other qb because then it is easy to shut down with qb spy if you know its coming, Sorry greener. i dont agree with this rule. How do you consider this any different then you subbing 3 or 4 different RBs with different strenghts in different situations? Unless you are a good observant player you dont recognize the difference in rbs either!
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by GREENERRRR on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:56 pm

Big diffe3rence in skill types between RBs and QBs - You MAKE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSONEL CHANGES to stop a scrambling qb as oppose to a pocket passer... but its not necessary to make the same changes are not required to stop a SPEED RB vs a POWER RB -

these are 2 totally different circumstance - afterall a RUN STOP LB does the same job vs a SPEED or POWER RB but when defending a POCKET PASSER vs a SCRAMBLING qb - U WANT DIFFERENT PERSONEL IN (with different skill sets)... - u dont have to worry about your DL being agile vs a pocket passer (and can sub in BIGGER - better run stopping guys) because the QB isnt ginna run around them like ATOMOTOINS but vs a scrambloing QB - fast D-LINE is a huge advantge and slow run stopping DL are a huge disadvantage!

I am sorry but TRICKING your opponent into thinking a pocket passer is in the game but really a srambling QB is playn, THAT IS NOT SUPERIOR GAME PLANNING - its borderline glitching because football (at any level), the defense knows what QB is in the game before they have to committ to a defensive personel package- and by manipulating this weakness in Madden doesnt make u a superior football strategist but more accurtately someone who takes advantage of poor programming weaknesses of the video game - some may call that GLITCHING
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by BROWARDGOONS on Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:55 pm

this is dumb... all u have to do is put a qb spy. not that hard. do your HW before the game look at his depth chart if he has a fast qb behind a pocket qb theres gonna be obviouse play when he uses him.

qb spy is a half secound solution. im more worried about guys who run 1-5-5 all game.

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by General_Hon on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:24 am

that 1-5-5 all game is so unrealistic and anti-sim. No one's base defense in the NFL is 1 down lineman. It's stupid if you can't effectively run against it with a heavy formation.

Sorry to go off topic

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:01 am

BROWARDGOONS wrote:this is dumb... all u have to do is put a qb spy. not that hard. do your HW before the game look at his depth chart if he has a fast qb behind a pocket qb theres gonna be obviouse play when he uses him.

qb spy is a half secound solution. im more worried about guys who run 1-5-5 all game.


this tactic doesnt work when u have RUN STOPPING de who play 3 and 4 techniquw (which is closer to a DT position thaN A TRADITIONAL DE = that plays 7 - 8 tecnique) - QBs that are fast can run around these players EASILY who are in spy - and i dont want to givb up a player who is in coverage - so when a scrambling QB comes in - I TAKE OUT MY RUN STOPPING DE and put in more agile DE or an OLB and i use that player to spy - THATS WHY I WANT TO KNOW WHAT QB IS IN THE GAME OR NOT - and i dont think its an unfair expectation...

as far as the 1-5-5 its is a total FEAST or FAMON vs the power run - either u teh defense gfets a 3 yard loss or the offense gets a 15+ gain... but for the most part - A GREAT POWER RUN GAME EATS UP THE 1-5-5 BIG TIME - i love it when the defense goes to 1-5-5 - CALL NO HUDDLE SO THEY CANT CHANGE OUT OF IT OR SO IF THEY AUDIBLE TO A NEW DEFENSE THEY HAVE A LB PLAYN DT! They need to get an injury - call a timeout or give up a TD for me to let u out of thast defense!
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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by weasel_ on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:16 pm

Wow so its ok to sub out Oline guys to give you better run or .pass blocking but you don't have to anounce those subs bit you have to with the QB? Sounds a lil bit hypocritical to me.

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Re: NEW QB SUB RULE

Post by weasel_ on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:25 pm

Hey maybe you shouldn't have a role specific roster and perhaps have Slime gota who can do it all ever think of that as a defense for a Wildcat ? Besides the true wildcat that is ran on the NFL the QB is still on the field and the new QB aka the Scrambling QB is taking the snap so sorry No you should not be allowed to know when I'm running wildcat untill I break my huddle JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE IN THE REAL NFL THAT WE ARE TRYING TO SIMULATE!!! Also it only take a half second if your good to change someone's asighnmemt to QB spy. Your fault if you ate over thinking the game and swapping personel out every situation.

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