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Tough Decisions to Make...

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Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:47 pm

With many players "turning over" in my LG and CHZ's league - we have added some real QUALITY players to both LGs - AND THESE ARE PLAYERS THAT EVERY MADDEN LG WANTS - they are the most committed of Madden Players - they are willing to take on a team THAT THEY DIDNT DRAFT - In a game that is having more guys LEAVE legues than JOIN... They are willing to quickly learn our UNIVERSAL MADDEN GROUP RULES (which is no small task - their is almost 40 rules)... They join OUR MADDEN GROUP LEAGUES when there is litterally HUNDREDS of other existing LGs actively recruiting them... They play all their games at the time of year when many of us have more committments outside of Madden (like Vacation and family stuff)... They are LEGIT PLAYERS of the highest percentile... A few example of guys like this (and this is a partial list - dont be upset if i neglect to include your name) - JONNY from CHZ's LG (i am sure there is more in CHZ LG - i am sure fr8train can name specific guys) - but in my LG - there is sconn1, trumpbailout, philliesphan, galo17 and D-Hemi... These are guys that have WITHOUT QUESTION HELPED SAVE MY LG (and i know fr8train has guys just like that - in fact some of these guys have even joined fr8trains LG too (philliesphan - galo17 - protector) - i have huge respect for these players...\

So what happenss in Madden 12 when we have Long time (even founding MG members - and a few GC members even) who quit Madden in the spring but of course want to be part of the new LGs we form AND RIGHTFULLY SO - THEY ARE A BIG PART OF THE MG!!!! - hopefully we have enough spots to include both these original MG members (who have earned their position in the MG through prior service and tenure but couldnt play the entire Madden 11 season) and.... the new members who have come into our MG leagues late in the Madden 11 year - and have helped save these lgs when we desperately needed them to play and made it possible for the rest of us to continue towards our goal of finishing season 10 - this is a huge contribution - They ae playn game when the most respected of MG members are unable to; Not to mention their gameplay is EXACTLY what we look for in a quality MG member!!!

I HOPE WE HAVE ENOUGH SPOTS IN OR MAIN LGS TO INCLUDE BOTH TYPES OF THESE PLAYERS!!

but...

what happens if we dont have enough spots to include both types of these members??? WHAT TYPE OF PLAYER SHOULD WE PRIORITIZE??? There is no need to name any specific names - thats not with this is about - and i have asked this question to 6 members that are still currently playing - and interestingly all 6 of them had a unified position (i wIll let them reveal there positin if they want to) - i thought it was prudent to get more feedback on this - AND I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE WONT HAVE TO MAKE THIS DECISION - but than again if we do have to make this decision - its not a bad thing - because that means we have more QUALITY PLAYERS THAN WE KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH....

I want to note - that there are going to be multiple LGs - and NO QUALITY players who have served the MG would be left out... and we have a lot of time to figure this out - but i do know that the NEW QUALITY players list is only going to increase as time passes - we add new players all the time to my LG and CHZ's LG - I am certain some of the most recent players that have joined will prove themselves as additions to the QUALITY MEMBERS LIST!
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:55 pm

1 member metioned that TOP SKILLED PLAYERS IN THE MG SHOULD BE GIVEN EXTRA PRIORITY in new lgs (regardless of leaving Madden 11 LGs early) and despite the fact that new quality players are available to join LGs...

I think i tend to agree with this statement - TOP PLAYERS MAKE THE MG `STRONGER` OVERALL - but there has to bea level of committment too...

Do you think skill level is something that should be considered in this conversation???
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by Fr8trainShane on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:40 pm

I'm not afraid to step up and say I was on the one who said that the elite skilled players who leave should be given some preferential treatment. That probably rubs some people the wrong way, but my thinking is this.

If you've got guys who are clearly elite, they've won SB's, or are right there at the end consistently in multiple leagues across multiple seasons. They are going to burn out faster if the competition isn't keeping them interested. The rest of us who are chasing our first taste of late season playoffs, or even the first taste of the playoffs, are going to stick around longer....refining our game.

A perfect scenario is a league of 32 guys, with elite skills, who really really have to wonder if they will make the playoffs. There will always be guys willing to take on teams they didn't draft, just to get into certain leagues (Hell I did in all 6 of my MG leagues).... but the Elite guys don't have to come back...they've proven themselves, and until we get more parity, they will continue to lose interest faster.

Not to mention, we all get better playing better skilled players.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by Child_Please4285 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:37 am

Just speaking of me but Shane is right in the case, that if we had and extremely Deep League as far as talent goes it would be WAY more fun for me, but honesty even some of the guys i beat almost always, like shane or travo i have alot of fun with on the Mic and enjoy better than a close game. Buddah got a little slack for calling guys "Lab Rats" and trying new playbooks but sometimes guys just find ways to keep the games interesting. While i did leave the franchises in the spring i hope I still will be apart of 2012. I miss playing sometimes but im also enjoying the Downtime. I don't need to be prioritized over any1 but i will be wanting in alot of the Major Franchises except Greenerr's (No offense i just hate no acc clock)
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by dtigertron on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:51 pm

The toughest part of this debate for me, is that the game has so many flaws that can be taken advantage of to dramatically effect the game. Everything from injuries being completely random to new glitches with each patch. 40 rules, that is crazy for a supposedly 'simulation'. I agree with all the rules, I am not saying our rules are a problem, I am saying the game needs a lot of work. I really hope that with 12 we can trim most if not all those rules, but I wont hold my breadth.

As to who should get priority, I think the players who end the franchise should get first bidding. I appreciate the need for top competition, and I would note that some of these newer guys would give our top talent a run for there money. I believe the newer guys are more interested in longevity and our community. Our group is about a long term commitment to sim style football gaming. That is what we want to stand for. If these newer players stick it out with 11, despite the flaws and the people who sneak in to take advantage of those flaws, then they deserve a spot in the franchises run by the same people.

The older guys should be looking into starting there own franchises with our group. That is the point of seniority, once you demonstrate over a long time that you are legit, you should take the responsibility of leadership. If this group gets to large, we can have a separate franchise of the cream of the crop. Kind of like what we wanted to do with the advance every night franchise that didn't work out. Not recommending another intense schedule like that, but the recruiting of the most reliable is a good idea.

Finally, I will say, how lucky are we that we have this problem. You guys that recruit continuously are awesome, we all owe you a great deal for keeping this community growing. Lets make sure the new guys get on the site and read the rules, so they know what is expected, BEFORE THEY PLAY A GAME ! That way, we can keep the community growing and have every one on the same page.
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:19 am

Child_Please4285 wrote:i will be wanting in alot of the Major Franchises except Greenerr's (No offense i just hate no acc clock)

no offense taken CP - i would hate the accel clock too if i passed the ball as much as you - i run the ball in the oppisite % - therefoere ACCEL CLOCK LGs end up being LIGHT SPEED games for me - I end up running no huddle just to get a reasonable # of plays in but than guys bitch about that.... BTW i recently went the longest ever before my opponent was given his 1st possession... - 4:44 seconds left in the 2nd half - of course it was his only possession of the first half - I WASNT EVEN TRYING TO RUN THE CLOCK EITHER- if i actually let the playclock wind down inside 5 seconds for each of my plays - I HAVE NO DOUBt THAT I COULD HAVE THE OPENING POSSESSION OCCUPY THE ENTIRE FIRST HALF - and i have given my opponent only 1 possession in the first HALF too many times to count - and each person that i do this too hates the effect of accel clock on the game (and i cant say i blame them - its totally unrealistic to have 1 possession for an entire HALF - but cerainly not my fault...) -

When your offensive game plan relies dominantly on passing - I understand that the game takes significantly longer than with no ACCEL CLOCK; Games in my LG average 54 minutes - IN our ACcel CLOCK LGs -they average around 33 minutes - is 20 minutes every 2 or 3 days too much of a committment? When u break things down thats the difference - 20 minutes is nothing over 2 or 3 days - I spend 20 minutes petting my dog, arguing with my GF, washing my golf clubs, looking at dirty magazines (well maybe a lil longer) lol, talking with my mother on the phone (and no its not at the same time as i look at the mags - get your mind out of the gutter! lol), looking up the latest movies on Net Flix, watering my flowers, throwing dog shit in my neighbours yard who doesnt clean it up after his dog dumps, returning emails from past Players i have coached, getting my coffee fix at Tim Hortons each morning, Waiting on the golf tee for the 4 some of jokers ahead of us to clear the green (who wont let us play through), looking up new inovations for Madden 12, posting about how the Jose Bautista is the next MLB MVP, arguing with my friends about how the LEAFS will nevermake it to the Stanleyt Cup again... - I THINK U GET MY POINT 20 minutes is nothing - and when your only required to give up 20 minutes every 2 to 3 days - its even less! -

I am sorry to hear that CP wont get a chance to face the NEW competition in my LG; We have some new players that have beaten "the top players`` in the MG -We are Possibly looking to partner with their group of LGs (they run exclusively NON-DRAFT LGs) - so perhaps you can get in 1 of those LGs and play them - but i dont like NON DRAFT LGs - somebody always gets stuck with a BAD team and somebody gets the GOOD team - In our draft LGs, this advantage is non-existant; But i understand the level of staisfication you would get turning around a team like the BILLS to win the SB that they never could - i can see the appeal.... Anyhow many of their members have supported our LGs as of late and I have refferred players back to their LGs in reciprocal support (as i have down for CHZ lg as well) - gettn a lil off topic - my point is - its too bad you wont get a chance to play these new players who have shown themselves able to beat TOP MAADDEN GROUP players
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:37 am

i liked your post ditergtrron - and the shortcoming of ther game have bedabted at length in these forums - i peronally hope we dont have to make this tough decision between LGs - and i dont think my LG will have that issue to any great exstent There will be a wait list like every year - but who gets in my LG will kb obvious and easy decisions to make... - there are plenty of original members who dont like the accel clcok - and thats their peregoative... That just leaves more room for other players who are equally deservuing and in some cases even more deserving of a spot in the LG...

Where i see the problem developing is in CHZ`s LG - he (and fr8trainshane in his absence) runs a great league - and i am sure that there will be plenty of guys whio left the LG early this year who will want back in for Madden 12... The problem is that Fr8trainshane has done an excellent job recruiting (and i among others have hjelped him add many solid new players) - he has found some real KEEN new members who have litterally saved this LG from extinction... Each day these new MG players show themselves as more and more dedicated gamers - They have taken on a team late in the Madden Season, that they didnt draft - This shows that they have a committment level that is TOP SHELF... There are 32 guys that can play in the LG - right now there are 26-28 guys in the LG - granted not all of them fall into the TOP SHELF category - but i am willing to say that at least HALF OF THM DO and this number will increase as the newer players proove themselves... I have no doubt that there will be a minimum of 20 guys that finish the year - that will deserve a spot in next seasons LG; Ultimatly the commish decides on the 32 guys who in their LG - but it would be tuff for any commish to turn their back on LEGIT and COMMITTED gamers who stood by their LG through thick and thin... in the end - tuff decisions will have to made and some guys will have to be left out...
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by bigbuddah on Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:45 pm

Well as far as rules go we have so many because of the flaws...if they make a better quality game we won't have as many. I've only left 1 lg and plan on leaving another..I'm still in 3 lgs after that and 2 are apart of mg. I left greenerrr 1 because none of the top players besides ff are in it. I've been in 4 and 5 lgs this whole time. Regarless if I leave 1 lg or 2 with ncaa right around the corner I'm still a part of mg and shouldn't even be thought of not letting me in any league on here according to my track record. The goal is to find new players so we can run more lgs that are legit and competitive. With so many games coming out in the fall I'm probably only going to do 2 to 3 lgs max. Its hard to schedule games when u don't care about a lg as much and players in that lg are suspect and players in that lg don't contact u its hard to wanna play in that lg. 2 of the other 4 top players on mg aren't in any lgs. I'm burnt out on madden right now caus its da same shit. Now everyone plays the same and the game gets old. I'm still playing madden caus I love football and madden and while I've bounced around lgs this is the only place that sticks for me. Ncaa 12 comes out I'm not playin madden 11 anymore caus then I must be in preparation for madden 12.

Note: this isn't attacking u greenerrr at all just giving another perspective

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by Fr8trainShane on Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:58 pm

First off, its pathetic that we have to have this many rules. People should want to play a sim game, and better themselves. We shouldn't have to regulate play calling percentages, or nanos, or scheduling, or picking up players on IR who someone thinks is just sitting out there. Its really pathetic, that people have to run 2-man under all game, its sad people can't better themselves, without having to be told.

There are too many bitches in these leagues, and not enough men wanting real competition......I pray we can get at least one league of solid non-bullshit, non-whiney, non quitting players...just one lg....because we dont even have that yet.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:21 pm

its too bad you left the LG especially if your reason was THERE ARE NO TOP LAYERS EXCEPT FF - because they are few new players that are really good and have a couple that hve beat FF and a few other he beat only negligibly..

Now FF is gonna come on hgere nd say, "they beat (and were in the game vs me) because they were cheaters and glithcers!" but the fact of the matter he had no replays supportiung his allegations... IN fact - its gone a far as an opponent in wk 4 being A SOLID SIM PLAYER - AND GREAT ADDITION TO THE MG (wghen he beat himby 3....) - but when he loses he is a piece of garbage cheater... (not to mention not a single complaiuint from other players over the previous 11 gmes on this player) - kind of suspect...

Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now - considering tese plkayers took on treams midway and all the baggage associated with it,.,, but u quit a decent team - i was able to find an owner for that team within 2 hours of you quiting - i appreaciate your team building expertise...
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by Fr8trainShane on Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:36 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:
Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now -

Surely you must be kidding. I know you seriously arent comparing the talent in your lg to that of Chz......

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by GREENERRRR on Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:14 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:
Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now -

Surely you must be kidding. I know you seriously arent comparing the talent in your lg to that of Chz......

yes i am shane - the new guys in MY lg have beaten the so called "top playes" in the MG - and there is a handful of them... and with the absence of CP - EZ and JMO from both of our LGs - these new players are the tops in the MG - its toio bad you didnt get the chance to play them, they have made my LG instantly as competive as CHZ lg - particularily when CP - EZ - JMO bailed on CHZ lg - it makes the debte even more cut and dry...
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by bigbuddah on Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:51 pm

1 reason y I left was the fact that FF was the only 1 left. Is that the only 1...no..I also said that 5 lgs is to much and I dnt care bout that lg. U can vouch for those lobby guys as much as u want ur suppose to..making videos to prove ppl are bumms at this stage of the madden season is pointless. U wouldn't kick noone anyway. When u start up a game and u see that the guy ur playing has 200+ lobby games ur already suspect. No jabs need to be thrown here. I simply left caus I was in too many lgs..I'm still in mg lgs greenerrr 1 was less interesting to me specially with the turnover. I stopped building that team before last season so it was time for me to leave. The question was what to do if ppl wuit playing madden or franchises period and I said and believe I shouldn't even be looked at as person to think about considering my track record. If I don't get in ur lg madden 12 so be it man u probably won't have any top guys anyway.

Trying to conpare the strength of ur lg to chz lg at the height of it is a HUGE stretch. With me and txboy gone the talent pool has fallen a little bit not that I'm that good but jus sayin the only guy I lost to was the bears owner and he was....won't go there but he is the only 1 I lost to soooo....see there I go again with the jabs..no need for those but seriously..ur the commish so lettin in who u want ur your decision and it really shouldn't be a topic of discussion caus ur the shot caller and ur gonna do whatever u want anyway.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by saastar on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:02 am

GREENERRRR wrote:
Fr8trainShane wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:
Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now -

Surely you must be kidding. I know you seriously arent comparing the talent in your lg to that of Chz......

yes i am shane - the new guys in MY lg have beaten the so called "top playes" in the MG - and there is a handful of them... and with the absence of CP - EZ and JMO from both of our LGs - these new players are the tops in the MG - its toio bad you didnt get the chance to play them, they have made my LG instantly as competive as CHZ lg - particularily when CP - EZ - JMO bailed on CHZ lg - it makes the debte even more cut and dry...

Greeneerrrr how can u say with the ABSENSE of CP, EZ and JMO from both of the lgs when CP, EZ, and JMO was never apart of either of ur lgs!! so the only true competition in both ur lgs was FF, txboy, buddah and bjcole... besides ur NEW PLAYERS(most lobby bums)... to where in chz lg u had ALOT of competition in it during its hype.. but even now without ez, jmo and cp in chz u have alot more competition than ur lg!!!

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by falconfansince81 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:12 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:its too bad you left the LG especially if your reason was THERE ARE NO TOP LAYERS EXCEPT FF - because they are few new players that are really good and have a couple that hve beat FF and a few other he beat only negligibly..

Now FF is gonna come on hgere nd say, "they beat (and were in the game vs me) because they were cheaters and glithcers!" but the fact of the matter he had no replays supportiung his allegations... IN fact - its gone a far as an opponent in wk 4 being A SOLID SIM PLAYER - AND GREAT ADDITION TO THE MG (wghen he beat himby 3....) - but when he loses he is a piece of garbage cheater... (not to mention not a single complaiuint from other players over the previous 11 gmes on this player) - kind of suspect...

Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now - considering tese plkayers took on treams midway and all the baggage associated with it,.,, but u quit a decent team - i was able to find an owner for that team within 2 hours of you quiting - i appreaciate your team building expertise...

your afc champ quit on me in the sb. it was very tough competition. quality players motioning wr's through the line of scrimmage and squib kicking, 100% sim. why don't you just ditch all the rules since nobody follows them anyways...theyre so stupid they even record themselves breaking them. i've only had a problem with maybe 7 guys out of ALL the leagues, and guess what they've all game from you or mullets lobby leagues. nobody complains because there is no point, nothing will be done its a proven fact. there is no credibility, and the replay system is flawed to provide evidence you will inevitably throw out the window to keep a team filled. must be that desperate to see someone beat the successful guys who play the game legit, since we all know you won't ever do it. your not breeding competition, but rather tearing the foundation apart. i know i for one will not be a part of this hypocritical circus you call a sim league next year, i've got 3 other leagues to merge myself and the other sim guys from mg with.
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by bigbuddah on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:18 pm

falconfansince81 wrote:

your afc champ quit on me in the sb. it was very tough competition. quality players motioning wr's through the line of scrimmage and squib kicking, 100% sim. why don't you just ditch all the rules since nobody follows them anyways...theyre so stupid they even record themselves breaking them. i've only had a problem with maybe 7 guys out of ALL the leagues, and guess what they've all game from you or mullets lobby leagues. nobody complains because there is no point, nothing will be done its a proven fact. there is no credibility, and the replay system is flawed to provide evidence you will inevitably throw out the window to keep a team filled. must be that desperate to see someone beat the successful guys who play the game legit, since we all know you won't ever do it. your not breeding competition, but rather tearing the foundation apart. i know i for one will not be a part of this hypocritical circus you call a sim league next year, i've got 3 other leagues to merge myself and the other sim guys from mg with.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....THEY'S SO STUPID THEY RECORD THEMSLEVES BREAKING RULES HAHAHAHAHA FUCKIN CLASSIC OMG THAT GAVE ME A HUGE CHUCKLE

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by sconn1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:14 pm

since im one of those new guys, i guess i should chime in here.

1st off, i find it funny to be called "a great addition to the league" and praised on the str8ness of my game by a guy when he wins but when im kickin ass and taking names, im a cheezing bum. that kind of defines the accuser. and from what i understand in asking around, this is par for his course, along with quitting when things dont go his way.

for the record, here's some of my track record:

i have been one of the most active franchise players in both M10 and M11 that there are. In 2 years and over 20 franchises i have NEVER missed a game. some days i play 4 to 5 franchise games. using alt sn's there are even times when i played more than that.

i run what is considered one of the best franchises in madden, Realball. We have run for over 15 seasons between M1o and 11, growing consistently. over half my owners are orig or very long time owners. we started 10 seasons in a row with 32 owners fyi. and in my ranks have been tourney winners and highly recognized str8 players. some of the best in fact.

i am on staff for league manager and write for them as they recognise my expertise and knowledge in the game. I speak and consult personally with EA staff on occasion. and by the way, my "boss" at league manager, derek adams is the guy that is considered THE liason between players and EA for M12 for online franchise. in other words, its him, and what we, his staff tell him to tell EA that will determine how this game is tuned (no patches in the future) to eliminate glitches and flaws. and by the way, thru beta testing, we have already pretty much eliminated all known nanos, rocket catches and a whole host of other exploits for 12. really, u will be pleased.

on some of the rules here:

the charge of glitching / cheesing, etc is an easy one to make. it certainly is a hell of a lot easier than owning up to getting owned. football is an emotional game and the people who play it are competitive, emotional people. combine competitive gaming with football and you get a very competitive, emotional player. and in the heat of battle, its always easier to blame misfortune on a glitch or accuse the other guy of malfeasence than to simply look at ourself and what we did wrong.

as a commish, i have learned that virtually everything in this game is subject to these accusations...really. that doesnt make the accusations hold water, but sometimes domino effects happen, esp online.... i'll explain...

i have heard accusations concerning (this just the top of my head) ... passes in the flats, slants, wheels, drags, crosses, fades and fly patterns... on the running game, guys who run outside too much, guys who run tosses too much, guys who run counters, guys who break outside, or inside...etc, etc...

the fact is i can find or create a nrrative about a flaw in virtually every aspect of this game. but if we go beyond the game, and back into football, i think you will find that the game itself, and the people are flawed. i'll give everyone a famous example that you can see in part on the NFL networks "100 players of 2011" in the greg jennings feature:

the game was the superbowl. and jennings goes to the coach / qb and informs them that when they line up a certain way and do certain things, troy polamaulu, one of the all time great safeties, hardly a bum, consistently plays too shallow and they can do a simple out pattern that will be wide open.

now, is troy p. a glitch? are the packers cheesing? no. the packers found a flaw in the game and exploited it. and i dont think anyone is going to make such accusations about them.

if troy would have recognized his own flawed play and adjusted to a slightly deeper zone, or took jennings man, maybe the pack doesnt score and the result of the game is different.

now, that example hardly covers everything, but i hope you get the point. and if you dont, i can literally write a book of examples,,, but i bet you can come up with your own if you really try and think about it.

in madden, let me show how something that is commonly called a glitch isnt:

some guys might get pissed at a motion out of the bunch, where on a wheel / fly route, the outside receiver then can run up the sideline. it is a tough play to stop, esp if you are in zone. but that doesnt make it unstoppable. a simple "cover zones to sideline" in say, a cover 3 or even cover 3 zone will go a long way to making that receiver not quite so open. if you know the play is coming you can aud the corner out of the flat zone and put him on man, further choking this receiver. if you dont do anything, yeah, you will prob get burned hard all day. but not because im glitching...because, quite frankly, you are playing a shitty game.

and if you do what i say, or your own technique to shut down that WR, the 1st on that play, that doesnt mean i dont have other reads or options...i do. and im gonna try to utilize those options as thats what football is about... making adjustments on both sides of the ball to achieve victory. theres no glitches, no cheese,,, just competition and adjustments. and im not gonna apologise because someone else isnt good enough to adjust their scheme to stop me. its not my fault someone doesnt know how to adjust their defenders to stop me and i am under no obligation to dumb down my game and play into their hands.

earlier i mentioned a "domino effect." this happens and i have watched it happen time and time again. it usually starts on a message board, more often than not the EA one or one of the more highly trafficked ones. some player goes online and bitches about what some guy did to them. and they literally create the glitch scenario that doesnt exist. then others read it and take it as gospel. then before you know it, leagues are making rules about it. and all the while, it was just some mediocre player that didnt fully understand the game and the glitch never existed.

to give an example:

dropping a guy back on punts.

this is a technique, that is used by many NFL teams in real life. thtas where i started doing it. 90's steeler teams used to have a guy who checked for a fake and if he didnt see it, sprinted back to protect his returner. does it add an extra blocker? yes it does. is that a crime? no its not. especially when the other guy is putting in 5 speed demons to gun down and pop the returner for a fumble ...then sky the ball so those gunners can get down there at the right time to cause that fumble. and those of us who get a little lag in our games here and there know the frustration of hitting the triangle fair catch and getting no response then getting decked. the extra blocker, as i use it, protects me from that misfortune. i run back MAYBE 1 punt a season. and many seasons i have none.
but when i use this technique, i have a lot less fumbles. dropping the guy back is a technique, not a glitch. it is certainly no more an exploit than subbing in your 5 fastest guys regarless of tackling or coverage skills for the sheer purpose of causing a fumble.

each player is adjusting their game to counter the other one...that's football. one guy not being able to deal with or comprehend the other's adjustments shouldnt make the guy have to dumb his game down or just be subject to his adjustments while being disallowed to counter them.

i play in lgs that allow nanos... and ya know what, most of em are pretty easily stopped. but in my league, we finally banned them not because of some unstoppability factor. but it just became such a rudimentary exersize to play some of these guys. no fun at all. because they chose to nano all day, i am forced to limit my plays to a very small number and the game is no longer football, but an exercize in tediousness. plus, the guys who do this stuff all day are usually the same guys who want to pull every other cheap move in the book, and we all know what that's like even if i dont run off a bunch of examples and make this longwinded post even longer..use your imagination.

it seems to me, thru experience, that there is a certain breed of player out there, a fairly common one ... these guys think that they know everything about this game and are total football geniuses. they think that their gameplan is perfect and when they do A, B and C...D should happen. football is a game tho, where 1 can do everything right, and things still go wrong. it isnt math, it isnt science. it is more of an art. an art that when it works is beautiful, and when it doesnt can be hideous.

but these players figure when there genius plan doesnt work, that someone must be cheating them, or the cpu is, or whatever. most times, none of that is happening. i, like everyone, have had games where everything goes right. games where everything goes wrong, despite my best effort...games where it seems like my players are in a contract dispute and refusing to try and games where guys are playing way over their heads. thats football.

in another post, someone commented about me in a video replay of a game (that i taped) that "did i ever run the play i called in the huddle?" and where i know that many times i do call the play i called in the huddle (and a fair evaluation of that would bear that out) i know my playbook and know my auds...as a good player should. so when i come out of a huddle, i begin to read, and i have, play wise, 10 options to go with. of course, within those, like anyone, i have my favorites. but the point is that i am going to read coming to the line every play nad if i see something, i am certainly going to adjust. in my opinion, the person who made that comment simply didnt understand the level i was playing on. maybe they dont know their auds for each formation, i dont know...but i do, and yeah, i use em. no way on this earth i would apologise for that.

also, i do sometimes squib kick... not for "no reason" but for a very good one...i am a sucky special teams defender. and i hate getting "inside outed" on a return.... and since the M11 defenders dont hold their lines, that very real glitch is something i defend against by utilizing the squib. and over time, i've gotten pretty good at placing to where half the time i end up not giving up much more yds than the typical return. but what i almost eliminate is the possibility of it being returned against me. before using the squib, id get returned on almost every game...now, i dont. btw, the M12 defenders will hold their lines much better. guys who specialize in returning kicks werent able to in the early build of 12.

as you can see,,,i can go on for days about this stuff... literally. but i've prob bored you enough. the main point of this post is really just to show that different people approach this game on different levels. and sometimes what our limited experience writes off as a glitch is really something that can be adjusted for. and sometimes players in real life play things wrong, or get confused ... there are linemen out there in the NFL who get beat bad every game...good linemen... but they are human, and sometimes they get confused and end up blocking no one or just missing completely in an attempt to block. qbs make adjustments based on what they see and try to get defenders in a bad position. thats all part of football. and its part of this game. and one can choose to fall back on the comfort of thinking everyone who gets the best of them is a cheater, glitcher or whatever ... or they can look at themselves and make adjustments to improve their own game and lead their team to victory next time. really guys, 98% of this game can be countered...even the weak flat play of the cpu. sometimes it might take the right command or audible, and sometimes it might require skilled user play. but its not the fault of your opponent if you are deficient in those areas. sometimes the best you can hope for in a play is a reasonable containment of the play, not a total shutdown of it or a player.

that doesnt mean there arent a few things that suck about this game. the inside out kick return is effective for the same reason guys (like my last opponent) run speedy guys slightly backwards when running the ball outside. this causes the defenders to pursue in a direct line way that ensures a fast back will be able to beat them around the corner. the only way to beat that is to get a guy out there via user control and make a play. on one play, i did not, i got burned. and while i recognize the unfair move he made with his running back... i know its my job to stop it, and every other time, i did. i didnt whine about cheeze. i played football. i've gotten sim fucked in 2 games, making my playoff chances much tougher... do i whine? no, i play on. and in both instances i could have taken the cpu game, but i didnt, since i was the new guy and wasnt looking to upset the cart that is this league. i was the nice guy. in this league, i have had 1 draft to slightly improve this beat up saints team and have played them competitively in every contest but 1, where i played against the steelers, which i cant do as my eyes naturally go with the steeler uniforms and i get all screwed up( i play steelers only usually) ,,,but that's another post, lol ....

i'll jump off my soapbox now... and stop rambling ...



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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by saastar on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:34 pm

falconfansince81 wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:its too bad you left the LG especially if your reason was THERE ARE NO TOP LAYERS EXCEPT FF - because they are few new players that are really good and have a couple that hve beat FF and a few other he beat only negligibly..

Now FF is gonna come on hgere nd say, "they beat (and were in the game vs me) because they were cheaters and glithcers!" but the fact of the matter he had no replays supportiung his allegations... IN fact - its gone a far as an opponent in wk 4 being A SOLID SIM PLAYER - AND GREAT ADDITION TO THE MG (wghen he beat himby 3....) - but when he loses he is a piece of garbage cheater... (not to mention not a single complaiuint from other players over the previous 11 gmes on this player) - kind of suspect...

Anyhow - the point is - in my LG you are probably missing out on the TUFFEST competition within th MG right now - considering tese plkayers took on treams midway and all the baggage associated with it,.,, but u quit a decent team - i was able to find an owner for that team within 2 hours of you quiting - i appreaciate your team building expertise...

your afc champ quit on me in the sb. it was very tough competition. quality players motioning wr's through the line of scrimmage and squib kicking, 100% sim. why don't you just ditch all the rules since nobody follows them anyways...theyre so stupid they even record themselves breaking them. i've only had a problem with maybe 7 guys out of ALL the leagues, and guess what they've all game from you or mullets lobby leagues. nobody complains because there is no point, nothing will be done its a proven fact. there is no credibility, and the replay system is flawed to provide evidence you will inevitably throw out the window to keep a team filled. must be that desperate to see someone beat the successful guys who play the game legit, since we all know you won't ever do it. your not breeding competition, but rather tearing the foundation apart. i know i for one will not be a part of this hypocritical circus you call a sim league next year, i've got 3 other leagues to merge myself and the other sim guys from mg with.

+1

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by sconn1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:45 pm

one more note... i should mention i dont do the drop back on the punt in this lg ... i did out of habit until someone politely pointed that out to me... so i adjusted. ... i do catch myself doing it automatically, but really , there's no malice intended.

and i simply didnt know squibbing was so frowned upon in this lg, i just missed that detail... but if so, i'll refrain and adjust.

but outside of that,,,and those are very superficial, minor things imo ... i have played within this leagues rules to the best of my ability. in about 15 games thus far in this lg, before this game, i received 0 complaints. in fact, i got praised by most of my competition including the same guy who is throwing mud at me now. i do apologize if i do something that is a violation and admit that i like anyone who plays in multiple leagues each with their own unique restrictions, i sometimes get a lil confused too ...and ask anyone who has played me and asked me about a certain technique,,,i either explain it or adjust from it if there is any question...and this league has more than most, in areas that are puzzling, quite frankly ... but anyone who fairly looks at the tapes i provided can see i play a consistantly str8 gm. i have my own style, like anyone. but there's nothing i do over and over (despite being accused of playing 1 D formation, i went back and checked and the tape showed i used no less than 6 unique formations ... 3 different sets of 34, 155,245, 335 (which some plays have linemen upright which might confuse a novice into thinking it's 155) plus i think i ran quarter a play or two. its blacked out (cause i forgot to hit record on the cam and it timed out after 5 minutes, thus the timing of the 3 min blackout) but i believe i ran GL form on D too when he was inside the 5.

i do use a lot of motion... something i learned from playing football in teams that utilized it alot. and from again, being a follower of the steelers..who learned a lot of what they do from the cowboys and niners teams of the 70's and 80's. when people say that wrs shouldnt be blocking, i know that hines ward is the latest (and prob greatest) in a long line of steeler receivers who were expected to be part of the blocking game. in fact, most of the schemes i use in madden are pretty basic compared to what they require their wideouts to be able to do. and bringing a wr into blocking inside the tackles is not a glitch or cheese. its football...in fact it's steeler football. yeah, it may confuse 1 defender IF the defender is a man assignment (and really all it does is cause a cautious spy / read reaction by the defender, hardly taking him out of the play, in fact sometimes putting him in a better position than if he would have been led long on a streak if the qb doesnt do it right) but hey,,,again,,,thats football. confusing and putting your opponent off balance is the nature of the game. and the way we each choose to do that to an opponent is up to the individual.

there's an old saying that goes around better madden players i hang with... "we all prefer our own brand of cheese" which is a reference from an austin powers movie, if ya know it... it just speaks to the fact that we perceive everything we do as "skill" and everything our opponent does as "cheese." and i found that to be true time and time again when talking with madden players.

from there, players break down into two types...the ones that adjust and improve and the ones who whine and moan like a loser. and you can apply this not only to madden but pretty much anywhere in life, or even life itself.


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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by falconfansince81 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:41 pm

so you think motioning a wr and snapping him through the line of scrimmage is what teams do on sundays. to 'confuse' their opponents? or is it to confuse the ai? to be honest i'm not reading that book because i don't really care, how you said to defend the sidelines was enough to prove you know little if anything about proper zone coverage technique (why would you audible a flat zone for a sideline route?? DERP) and shreds any further credibility in whatever else you dribbled out in that wall of text.

i will give you credit at least your presented it above a kindergarten level so it is readable to those who wish to do so opposed to a mix of caps and illegible words. i also don't remember teams squib kicking every kickoff, or seeing the doplphins audible down 3 wr sets to put ginn @ te and run streaks. you didn't bother running the ball unless it was goaline fb dives, so defending the same 4-5 mix of motions on a wheel route or through the line of scrimmage was well within greeners gray area select players are allowed to play in.

i would not have a problem if this was YOUR league under YOUR rules, and in fact no you are not NEARLY as cheesy as half the crap thats out there in the lobbys...BUT its the same shit every week where people are expected to play within the MG rules and its like none of it applies and no one coming into the leagues bothers even reading it. the game was just the same as the first time we played, aside from you not bringing a player back on punts (must be sim in your league since you have such a firm grasp on realism) and honestly after the 1st couple drives i was done with the league.

if we drop all the rules, fine, then nothing can be bitched about...but either way its no longer a concern of mine there are far greener (no pun) pastures out there. i have nothing against you personally sconn, and really it has nothing to do with you but moreso the way greener constantly plays favorites and discredits his own shitty rule system. i play in dominators league which has 1 rule, but even though most guys are straight out the lobby i don't mind because its clearly not a sim league but more to fuck around with, which is basically greener ball. banking on the flaws of the game to propel your offense rather than calling plays that diagnose the defense, no different than him running the same off tackle because he knows he will get the fall forward animation since he refuses to learn how to pass. thats fine, you guys can roll into 12 looking for ways to move the ball against the ai and bend the rules others are expected to follow...don't care either way...
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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by Fr8trainShane on Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:55 pm

sconn1 wrote:
i have been one of the most active franchise players in both M10 and M11 that there are.

Nobody cares.... what you did anywhere... You are new, you have to prove yourself. Period.

sconn1 wrote:i run what is considered one of the best franchises in madden, Realball. We have run for over 15 seasons between M1o and 11, growing consistently. over half my owners are orig or very long time owners. we started 10 seasons in a row with 32 owners fyi. and in my ranks have been tourney winners and highly recognized str8 players. some of the best in fact.
Considered one of the best by whom? Yourself? I've never ever heard of Realball... A simple google search shows you recruit on the EA boards, which is akin to asking for every lobby type cheese no-skill player to join.... Hardly a blazing resume, in my opinion.

sconn1 wrote:i am on staff for league manager and write for them as they recognise my expertise and knowledge in the game. I speak and consult personally with EA staff on occasion. and by the way, my "boss" at league manager, derek adams is the guy that is considered THE liason between players and EA for M12 for online franchise. in other words, its him, and what we, his staff tell him to tell EA that will determine how this game is tuned (no patches in the future) to eliminate glitches and flaws. and by the way, thru beta testing, we have already pretty much eliminated all known nanos, rocket catches and a whole host of other exploits for 12. really, u will be pleased.
Given the state of Madden over the past several years, This is a company line, that never holds true. The fact is Madden is not an NFL simulation game, its created to suit the arcade type players.

sconn1 wrote:
the charge of glitching / cheesing, etc is an easy one to make. it certainly is a hell of a lot easier than owning up to getting owned. football is an emotional game and the people who play it are competitive, emotional people. combine competitive gaming with football and you get a very competitive, emotional player. and in the heat of battle, its always easier to blame misfortune on a glitch or accuse the other guy of malfeasence than to simply look at ourself and what we did wrong.
This is the most ridiculous argument I've heard.... Because someone is able to do it, is getting owned? lol Taking advantage of AI and programming limitations is not getting owned, its abusing the system.

sconn1 wrote:
the game was the superbowl. and jennings goes to the coach / qb and informs them that when they line up a certain way and do certain things, troy polamaulu, one of the all time great safeties, hardly a bum, consistently plays too shallow and they can do a simple out pattern that will be wide open.

now, is troy p. a glitch? are the packers cheesing? no. the packers found a flaw in the game and exploited it. and i dont think anyone is going to make such accusations about them.

if troy would have recognized his own flawed play and adjusted to a slightly deeper zone, or took jennings man, maybe the pack doesnt score and the result of the game is different.
This is another idiotic example. First off, Troy Palomalu will change his coverage and where he lines up each play, each game, each series, each year.... its different. In Madden, the AI player will line up in the exact same place, every single time. Nothing about him changes. The wheel route with a motioned WR takes advantage of these programming limitations.

sconn1 wrote:
dropping a guy back on punts.

this is a technique, that is used by many NFL teams in real life. thtas where i started doing it. 90's steeler teams used to have a guy who checked for a fake and if he didnt see it, sprinted back to protect his returner. does it add an extra blocker? yes it does. is that a crime? no its not. especially when the other guy is putting in 5 speed demons to gun down and pop the returner for a fumble ...then sky the ball so those gunners can get down there at the right time to cause that fumble. and those of us who get a little lag in our games here and there know the frustration of hitting the triangle fair catch and getting no response then getting decked. the extra blocker, as i use it, protects me from that misfortune. i run back MAYBE 1 punt a season. and many seasons i have none.
but when i use this technique, i have a lot less fumbles. dropping the guy back is a technique, not a glitch. it is certainly no more an exploit than subbing in your 5 fastest guys regarless of tackling or coverage skills for the sheer purpose of causing a fumble.

First off, ummm, its against the rule here. I hate people who want to use an example of 1 team, from 3 decades ago, who ran 1 play, as justification for their game tendencies... jesus, thats pathetic. Man up, and the play the game like it would be played. You can always tell the people who played Football in an organized manner (they tend to want to play realistic, not arcade style)...



sconn1 wrote:
also, i do sometimes squib kick... not for "no reason" but for a very good one...i am a sucky special teams defender. and i hate getting "inside outed" on a return.... and since the M11 defenders dont hold their lines, that very real glitch is something i defend against by utilizing the squib. and over time, i've gotten pretty good at placing to where half the time i end up not giving up much more yds than the typical return. but what i almost eliminate is the possibility of it being returned against me. before using the squib, id get returned on almost every game...now, i dont. btw, the M12 defenders will hold their lines much better. guys who specialize in returning kicks werent able to in the early build of 12.

Clearly you must be in one of Greenerrr's leagues or Mullet's league.. as Inside out returns are against the rules here...as are squib kicks, and pretty much most of what your post is touching on... lol. Did you even bother to read the rules before you decided to get on a soapbox?

You'd be immediately banned in my league.....actually, You'd never get a spot in my league....I guess thats good to know already.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by sconn1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:15 pm

ummm the wr is coming into block,,, not confuse anyone. but depending on therir play recognition and some other attributes, sometimes the defender will not attack the run in a way that the player wants or has in their head. and i ran more than what ya say,,but u did defend the run pretty well and when u see who i have to run the ball,,,hightower,,,whos stmina means i can get 3 ro 4 runs tops out of him a game and bertz who i dont run very well and isnt exactly a hall of famer to begin with and considering i have good weapons at wideout, this team is gonna throw the ball, a lot. using the pass to set up the run so to speak.

and i didnt say aud a flat to a sideline route,,,i said aud the flat (cause the pattern is verticals and there is no receiver in the flat) to man coverage on that outside guy. but whatever.

and that along with telling the defenders who are in zone still to cover to the sideline (in the defensive audible menu) is an effective coverage there. its a combo zone man coverage which i and many others do quite regularly. and there are about 12 other ways i can think of to skin that cat out of various schemes.

you just want to insult me and then claim that u didnt read it (just picked out a couple of nitpicky things from the interior of the article how then?) whatever, son.... im not worried about my credibility with you, hardly. i have creditbility with the people that matter in this game. with top players, with people at various madden affiliates and with EA themself. you, on the other hand, seem to think your lil 3 or 4 franchise world is some be all of talent. i got news for ya pal...there are tons of great madden players out there who will clean your and my clock. but of course, whatever they do, you will call it cheese and blame it on something like that, while i will learn and improve like any good competitor does. thats the difference between you and me. the difference between a competitor and sportsman and a whiner and loser who is apparently threatened that his lil world is simply getting rocked by better players.

and the ginn audible,,,,btw,,, was a flanker drive... i didnt aud him into a streak, thats his pattern,,,, its also the 3rd read on the play. the Z and the HB are the 1st two fyi... he was just so damn open i couldnt not throw it. but you didnt see me do that "all day"...i did it exactly once. and you know as well as i that u did your fair share of auds and whatnot... ,,,cmmon,,,that isnt what this is about....

and quite frankly,,,with the little backwards move u pull with your halfback,,,u have a lot of nerve saying anything to anyone. we both know how old that cheese is. it is the definition of glitchball / lobbyball, whatever you wanna call it.

your point about rules does have merit tho.... and i agree that when i look at this rulebook, there are things in there that are kinda silly. i think there is some big confusion in this league about what a glitch is exactly and what is good football. and yes, football is a game of execution, reading, deception, the occasional gadget play, a game where the unexpected should be expected and when one starts to think that they have it all figured out, that usually only means they are ripe for the picking to be burned.

but in my league, and i would recommend for other leagues...at this point, a lot of lines have been blurred. there is so much junk info out there it is hard to tell what is what sometimes. i would say just play ball,,,finish the year and move on to 12, where yes, a lot of the true glitches in the game, like nanos and RCs have been thouroghly addressed. the inside out kick return, gone. flat coverage, much improved (tho not perfect and it never should be) the tackling system is going to be liked by people who try to legitimately tackle now and be hated by those who lived on the stick before. those tosses, with the little backward move, wont cause the AI to do the wrong pursuit like they have for years. a lot will change. and its less than 3 months away. just play ball, we should all just work on improving our own game and in the end we will all be better players and better prepared for what the next guy throws at us.

but if y'all would rather argue and create more ill will over petty things, i can do that too, lol.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by sconn1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:19 pm

and freighttrain... you google what ya like,,, and feel free to have your opinions. but pal,,, what the f have you done? you wanna poo poo everything i say? thats easy loser talk buddy,,,anyone can do it. and i dont remember ever wanting or even knowing of your league. to me, you just sound like a scared lil rabbit defending his buddies. oh, and for the record,,,i was recruited by the commish of this lg, ,,so, someone cared. lol.

so, how bout i do what i do, you do what you do,,,and we'll both see how that works out for us? ok?





Last edited by Admin on Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : took out bad words)

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by sconn1 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:25 pm

by the way... just looking at the players who are either current or longtime members from my league here,,,i think we are competing quite well...and our participation rate is at the top of the list too. not saying we are "superior" or anything, but for all the trashing of me and guys from my league goin on here, i can without a doubt, its pretty unfounded.

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Re: Tough Decisions to Make...

Post by saastar on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:05 pm

sconn1 wrote: i was recruited by the commish of this lg, ,,so, someone cared. lol.




sconn i would not brang about being recruited by greenerrr for his lg only!! bc he will take any BUM of the street to keep his lg filled!!!

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