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CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:19 pm

phantomshark wrote:How about a compromise? Person can choose to play sub or CPU, but if he chooses CPU it's 1 start only, after that start he takes the sim result.


that would work for me - and i am sure any1 legit wouldnt have a problem with this because they dont restart CPU games - and on the off chance that you get a DC in a CPU game - u will have to live with the SIM result - thats a reasonable compromise...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by slickmonkyz on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:22 pm

that would work too.. when do i get another football --------------------------------------------------->>>> confused
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by BiLlDoZeR_27 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:24 pm

I think the sub rule is a fantastic idea. I don't see what your problem is with this greener. Because this keeps people interested lets them play a fresh face every now and again. Sure the CPU is an easy win but Id also much rather play somebody on the other end. CPU games are no fun. So I for one am up for this and I'll even join your sub player list even though I'm like Playin the CPU and an easy win.



And you mean to tell me that if somebody gets dc during a CPU Game that they can't restart? Have to let it sim? That's garbage. Why not give them the opportunity to play a sub again. Just Sayin....
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by Fr8trainShane on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:25 pm

phantomshark wrote:How about a compromise? Person can choose to play sub or CPU, but if he chooses CPU it's 1 start only, after that start he takes the sim result.

GREENERRRR wrote:
that would work for me - and i am sure any1 legit wouldnt have a problem with this because they dont restart CPU games - and on the off chance that you get a DC in a CPU game - u will have to live with the SIM result - thats a reasonable compromise...

So what would be the punishment if someone restarted twice? Then you have this whole issue

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by phantomshark on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:32 pm

BiLlDoZeR_27 wrote:
And you mean to tell me that if somebody gets dc during a CPU Game that they can't restart? Have to let it sim? That's garbage. Why not give them the opportunity to play a sub again. Just Sayin....

Because if they choose to play the CPU and d/c, then there might not be time to find a sub. Plus, there needs to be some downside to choosing to play the CPU, otherwise everyone could choose to play CPU trying for free win and if they get an injury quit and take the sub game.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by BiLlDoZeR_27 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:37 pm

phantomshark wrote:
BiLlDoZeR_27 wrote:
And you mean to tell me that if somebody gets dc during a CPU Game that they can't restart? Have to let it sim? That's garbage. Why not give them the opportunity to play a sub again. Just Sayin....

Because if they choose to play the CPU and d/c, then there might not be time to find a sub. Plus, there needs to be some downside to choosing to play the CPU, otherwise everyone could choose to play CPU trying for free win and if they get an injury quit and take the sub game.

So now your sayin that a CPU gm is an easy win? You guys kill me. I still dont think it's that players fault if EA kicks them off during their CPU game. Then you would be punishing them that's not fair either. I personally don't care I like the sub rule and will be selecting that. So whatever...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:38 pm

your missing things billy...

if you play the CPU - u get 1 start - thats it - no restarts allowed - if a CPU game ends b4 the gamne is recorded FOR ANY REASON - than u must live with the SIM result...

However, if u prefer to play a SUB player - great - thats what you do - and if you get an inadvertain DC - it will resolved through the normal process...

dont see a downside here - if you are a guy who resoects the CPU game and finsihes the game regardless of injury - this rule allows you to continue doing this,,,,

If you hate playn the CPU and would prefer to play a human - the opportunity to play a SUB lets you do this...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by phantomshark on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:42 pm

I'd even go so far as saying, allow for a 'handicap' for sub games, for those who say that there should be a penalty for missing a game. You can pick 1 player off the opposing team who must sit out. Drop him from the team and pick him back up after it's over. Can be a QB, HB, WR, CB, whatever you want.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by BiLlDoZeR_27 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:46 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:your missing things billy...

if you polay the CPU - u get 1 play - thats it - no restarts allowed - if a CPU game ends b4 the gamne is recorded FOR ANY REASON - than u must live with the SIM


This proves that you don't understand what I'm saying. What if you get kicked off the EA SERVERS while you playing your CPU GAME. That is out of your control but what your sayin is that they can't restart that game because they 'quit' so now they have to 'live with the sim result'. I think that's crap. How is that even fair for the people that choose to go that route.
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by saastar on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:51 pm

i agree with u bill.. thats why i say u should get atleast 2 trys at playing the cpu... bc i had an cpu gm recently kick me twice off the server before the coin toss.. and that counts as an time started... so i say if u choose to play cpu then u get 2 chances.. after that take sim lose... or u choose to play sub then thats ur priority....

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by phantomshark on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:12 pm

That defeats the purpose. Then people could get an injury and restart. Which is what we're trying to avoid.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by Fr8trainShane on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:13 pm

Look, I think everyone is missing the point.

Noone wants to play CPU games.
We joined the MG to play live people, not the CPU (or you'd be playing offline franchises).

If we completely eliminate CPU games, and just use subs, it solves both problems. You play a live person, and you don't have to play the CPU.
You aren't being punished because your opponent didn't show up, you still have to play the game...
Its completely fair, as everyone will be subject to it.
And if the subs are random (ie whoever is online at the moment), then you can't be screwed by playing the same people over and over. Hell, we just make it so you can't play the same sub more than once or twice a season.

There is no need for CPU games, period. We have enough people online, willing to fill in, that it should be a non issue.
And if we are going to use subs in the minor/major league system for Madden 12, then we might as well iron out the kinks now.

Please tell me the GC is already discussing this for a vote.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:14 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:Look, I think everyone is missing the point.

Noone wants to play CPU games.
We joined the MG to play live people, not the CPU (or you'd be playing offline franchises).

If we completely eliminate CPU games, and just use subs, it solves both problems. You play a live person, and you don't have to play the CPU.
You aren't being punished because your opponent didn't show up, you still have to play the game...
Its completely fair, as everyone will be subject to it.
And if the subs are random (ie whoever is online at the moment), then you can't be screwed by playing the same people over and over. Hell, we just make it so you can't play the same sub more than once or twice a season.

There is no need for CPU games, period. We have enough people online, willing to fill in, that it should be a non issue.
And if we are going to use subs in the minor/major league system for Madden 12, then we might as well iron out the kinks now.

Please tell me the GC is already discussing this for a vote.

We aren't...but it will be brought up.
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by BiLlDoZeR_27 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:16 pm

Very well put Shane.
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:17 pm

BiLlDoZeR_27 wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:your missing things billy...

if you polay the CPU - u get 1 play - thats it - no restarts allowed - if a CPU game ends b4 the gamne is recorded FOR ANY REASON - than u must live with the SIM


This proves that you don't understand what I'm saying. What if you get kicked off the EA SERVERS while you playing your CPU GAME. That is out of your control but what your sayin is that they can't restart that game because they 'quit' so now they have to 'live with the sim result'. I think that's crap. How is that even fair for the people that choose to go that route.


this is the risk your run - and is PART OF THE COMPROMISE... if your system consistantly boots you on CPU games - clearly u will play a SUB...

its part of give an take BILLY - i am willing to compromise and aloow guys to play SUB players if they like to - as long as i get the chance to play the CPU - but if my dog runs through my power cords during a CPU game i am shit out of luck...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:18 pm

saastar wrote:i agree with u bill.. thats why i say u should get atleast 2 trys at playing the cpu... bc i had an cpu gm recently kick me twice off the server before the coin toss.. and that counts as an time started... so i say if u choose to play cpu then u get 2 chances.. after that take sim lose... or u choose to play sub then thats ur priority....

i was cwertain that only time a game counts as "started" is after the kickoff - i hve a scrub lg - i will test this - but i am fairly certain...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:21 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:Look, I think everyone is missing the point.

Noone wants to play CPU games.
We joined the MG to play live people, not the CPU (or you'd be playing offline franchises).

If we completely eliminate CPU games, and just use subs, it solves both problems. You play a live person, and you don't have to play the CPU.
You aren't being punished because your opponent didn't show up, you still have to play the game...
Its completely fair, as everyone will be subject to it.
And if the subs are random (ie whoever is online at the moment), then you can't be screwed by playing the same people over and over. Hell, we just make it so you can't play the same sub more than once or twice a season.

There is no need for CPU games, period. We have enough people online, willing to fill in, that it should be a non issue.
And if we are going to use subs in the minor/major league system for Madden 12, then we might as well iron out the kinks now.

Please tell me the GC is already discussing this for a vote.


your failing to address the qulaity of opponent issue - and no matter what - any SUB will be better than the CPU - but if they are better than the guy i was playn - and i lose a game where my opponent is 100% responsible for not being available and i have been available to play the entire playn period - thats totally bigus for me - and even more bogus for him because he gets a win that he in no way deserves....

phantom's compromise allows for both circumstances - a true compromise because if u elect to play thge CPU - u will get an EZ win - but if u get a DC, U HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!


Last edited by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by phantomshark on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:22 pm

Nah, sometimes it'll count as a start even if you don't kick off. You'd have to check and if it shows a start oh well, you got unlucky. Since there's no way for us to tell why a game was restarted, there would have to be a strict rule about this, allowing even 2 starts allows too much room for cheese. If you are like Greener or I and willing to play sim, then the once in a blue moon actual d/c would be the price we pay. If you are someone who thinks they are 'owed' a win or injury free game, then don't bother.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by saastar on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:27 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:
saastar wrote:i agree with u bill.. thats why i say u should get atleast 2 trys at playing the cpu... bc i had an cpu gm recently kick me twice off the server before the coin toss.. and that counts as an time started... so i say if u choose to play cpu then u get 2 chances.. after that take sim lose... or u choose to play sub then thats ur priority....

i was cwertain that only time a game counts as "started" is after the kickoff - i hve a scrub lg - i will test this - but i am fairly certain...

nope.. week 17 surf lg... i started the gm it loaded up showing the 2 team logos and said u have been disconnected from ea servers score and stats will not count from this gm.. i quit gm go back to surf lg and it counted as an TS(time started)...

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by Fr8trainShane on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:30 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:
your failing to address the qulaity of opponent issue - and no matter what - any SUB will be better than the CPU - but if they are better than the guy i was playn - and i lose a game where my opponent is 100% responsible for not being available and i have been available to play the entire playn period - thats totally bigus for me - and even more bogus for him because he gets a win that he in no way deserves....

phantom's compromise allows for both circumstances - a true compromise because if u elect to play thge CPU - u will get an EZ win - but if u get a DC, U HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!

Quality of opponent is a non-issue. Since it will be random subs, everyone will be subjected to the same randomness. When the game was initially scheduled it was scheduled against a human player, therefore, a CPU game is actually a lot less than any human player. This will be more on par.

Sure, you will have the occasional games where you find out the sub is Jmo, or FF, or whatnot... but it is what it is. Look at it as the 3-13 Dolphins beating the 15-1 Bears in 1985. Sometimes it just happens. Its a random deal.

What is also lost in this discussion, is that sometimes players are given a CPU game simply because the 2 players can't get on together at the same time, so one player says, "Well I'll give you a CPU game.".... its not because that player can't play the game, its just because he isn't available at the same times as the other player...... neither party is truly at fault, and neither should have to have the automatic CPU game loss.

I don't like the idea of a compromise, for 3 reasons.
1) It won't be that way in Madden 12 (we'll hopefully be using Minor league subs), so better to iron out the kinks now.
2) When you have a compromise, people will find a way to manipulate the system. It also doesn't address the issue of 2 players both being available, but not being available at the same time. Why should one guy have to get a CPU loss?
3) We are trying to eliminate CPU games aren't we? We're all here to play REAL people...not the computer.

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:31 pm

saastar wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:
saastar wrote:i agree with u bill.. thats why i say u should get atleast 2 trys at playing the cpu... bc i had an cpu gm recently kick me twice off the server before the coin toss.. and that counts as an time started... so i say if u choose to play cpu then u get 2 chances.. after that take sim lose... or u choose to play sub then thats ur priority....

i was cwertain that only time a game counts as "started" is after the kickoff - i hve a scrub lg - i will test this - but i am fairly certain...

nope.. week 17 surf lg... i started the gm it loaded up showing the 2 team logos and said u have been disconnected from ea servers score and stats will not count from this gm.. i quit gm go back to surf lg and it counted as an TS(time started)...

well i am lucky to rarely have that problem - but i take stepos to avoi it as well- i have the very best internet connection available, i hardwire my PS3 direct ot the modem and my GF knows she is to stay off the internet when i am in my gaming chair!!!

but if you run into these inadvertain DCs - clearly you would elect to play a SUN player
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:39 pm

[quote="Fr8trainShane"]
GREENERRRR wrote:


I don't like the idea of a compromise, for 3 reasons.
1) It won't be that way in Madden 12 (we'll hopefully be using Minor league subs), so better to iron out the kinks now.
2) When you have a compromise, people will find a way to manipulate the system. It also doesn't address the issue of 2 players both being available, but not being available at the same time. Why should one guy have to get a CPU loss?
3) We are trying to eliminate CPU games aren't we? We're all here to play REAL people...not the computer.

1- next season decision are not decided on and are far from "set in stone"

2- no way to manipulate the system in Phantoms compromie - u play the CPU and live with the results of your game if you dont it is SIMed - PERIOD!!!! or you play a SUB player- 1 of the 2 - how on earth could that be "manipulated"

AND IF 2 GUYS CANT GET TOGTHER TO PLAY - AND THE 1 GUY SAYS "PLAY THE cpu " - he is essentially conceding the game or he feels that he doesnt deserve the win because theother player had made a bigger effort to play and he was probably not available so he did the "right thing" and gave him a CPU gm...these games shold be handled the same way as any other CPU game...

3 - of course we try to mimimize CPU games - that goes w/o saying but sometimnes are unavoidable... and quality of opponent cant be ignored - and even if its random - the worst player in the MG is still better than the CPU...

and you worried about guys manipulating the system - thats all guys will do with the exclusive SUB system - you thinkl if a player draws a "top" players he will make himself available for that game? he could simply jsut let the game SIMed to avoid playing them - which is absurd - but is more likely to happen than any type of manipulation of the system phantom suggseted...
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by Fr8trainShane on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:45 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:

1- next season decision are not decided on and are far from "set in stone"

2- no way to manipulate the system in Phantoms compromie - u play the CPU and live with the results of your game if you dont it is SIMed - PERIOD!!!! or you play a SUB player- 1 of the 2 - how on earth could that be "manipulated"

AND IF 2 GUYS CANT GET TOGTHER TO PLAY - AND THE 1 GUY SAYS "PLAY THE cpu " - he is essentially conceding the game or he feels that he doesnt deserve the win because theother player had made a bigger effort to play and he was probably not available so he did the "right thing" and gave him a CPU gm...these games shold be handled the same way as any other CPU game...

3 - of course we try to mimimize CPU games - that goes w/o saying but sometimnes are unavoidable... and quality of opponent cant be ignored - and even if its random - the worst player in the MG is still better than the CPU... t

1) While it is far from set in stone, I assume that since its a good idea, and most people are in favor of it, I'm just making an educated leap of faith here...

2) Lets say I get disconnected from my CPU game, and just restart another one....on my own. Boom. I just beat the SIM system. This is why Subs used.... .besides, we all want real life, breathing, human opponents. Is your argument that you should be given an easy win? (careful how you answer.... we talked about a sense of entitlement hehe)

3) Quality of opponent can be ignored....besides, its a two way street...What if you were to play CP, and he couldn't make it because something came up..... Everyone always tries to find the rare occurrence where its not favorable.... but forgets that there are an equal number of times where it is more favorable.

SUB PLAYERS......

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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by GREENERRRR on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:51 pm

[quote="Fr8trainShane"]
GREENERRRR wrote:


1) While it is far from set in stone, I assume that since its a good idea, and most people are in favor of it, I'm just making an educated leap of faith here...

2) Lets say I get disconnected from my CPU game, and just restart another one....on my own. Boom. I just beat the SIM system. This is why Subs used.... .besides, we all want real life, breathing, human opponents. Is your argument that you should be given an easy win? (careful how you answer.... we talked about a sense of entitlement hehe)

3) Quality of opponent can be ignored....besides, its a two way street...What if you were to play CP, and he couldn't make it because something came up..... Everyone always tries to find the rare occurrence where its not favorable.... but forgets that there are an equal number of times where it is more favorable.

SUB PLAYERS......

1 - no need to answer - future is unknown,,,

2 if you restart a CPU game twice - than you are gettn the stifftest of saanction - clear breach of porotacal and u will be dealt with.,.. same thing could happen when playn a subn player - an unscrupulous player could start a CPU game b4 the sub could join - so you hammer guys like that bigtime - loss of draft pics - forfitture of furture games vs the same opponent - doezens of ways you can have a detterent

3 quality of opponent is only a way streeet- every person is better than the CPU - so any SUB will be a tougher game than the CPU
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Re: CPU Games No More....Time for Substitute Players

Post by mblammers on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:57 pm

Fr8trainShane wrote:
GREENERRRR wrote:
your failing to address the qulaity of opponent issue - and no matter what - any SUB will be better than the CPU - but if they are better than the guy i was playn - and i lose a game where my opponent is 100% responsible for not being available and i have been available to play the entire playn period - thats totally bigus for me - and even more bogus for him because he gets a win that he in no way deserves....

phantom's compromise allows for both circumstances - a true compromise because if u elect to play thge CPU - u will get an EZ win - but if u get a DC, U HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT!

Quality of opponent is a non-issue. Since it will be random subs, everyone will be subjected to the same randomness. When the game was initially scheduled it was scheduled against a human player, therefore, a CPU game is actually a lot less than any human player. This will be more on par.

Sure, you will have the occasional games where you find out the sub is Jmo, or FF, or whatnot... but it is what it is. Look at it as the 3-13 Dolphins beating the 15-1 Bears in 1985. Sometimes it just happens. Its a random deal.

What is also lost in this discussion, is that sometimes players are given a CPU game simply because the 2 players can't get on together at the same time, so one player says, "Well I'll give you a CPU game.".... its not because that player can't play the game, its just because he isn't available at the same times as the other player...... neither party is truly at fault, and neither should have to have the automatic CPU game loss.

I don't like the idea of a compromise, for 3 reasons.
1) It won't be that way in Madden 12 (we'll hopefully be using Minor league subs), so better to iron out the kinks now.
2) When you have a compromise, people will find a way to manipulate the system. It also doesn't address the issue of 2 players both being available, but not being available at the same time. Why should one guy have to get a CPU loss?
3) We are trying to eliminate CPU games aren't we? We're all here to play REAL people...not the computer.

+1

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