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Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

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Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by GREENERRRR on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:50 am

I have come to see that in this year version of the game - the "lowly" DRAW has become a the fersome run weapon!

My take on the draw is that it is a conservative play call option you look to use when the other team is expecting pass - but u want to make sure u get some positive yards (possibly keep the clock running) - and MAYBE catch the defense off-guard and get a sizeable gain... The premise of the play is for the qb to do a standard 4-5 step drop back while holding the ball in the throw ready position (meanwhile the RB steps up like he is pass blocking) and than the qb puts the ball down and the play IS RUN BETWEEN THE TACKLES - with the DL in full pass rush mode - the RB often runs right pass them - if the other defenders are in man 2 man - and the recievers are doing a good job selling their route and clearing their defenders - the rest of the defense should be far down field before they realize its a run play... works good against the blitz too - because often the blitzers over pursue like the down linemen as they are eager to get to the QB who is selling them on the pass (with his drop step and the ball held high in the throwing position) - it will get EATEN up if a blitzer is assigned to BLITZ and engage a RB - (which says if he pass blocks - u are to blitz through the RB - but still pick him up if he decides to delay into a pass route or look for a draw)...

anyhow - thats how the draw is geneally viewed in my mind - but in madden - its often the GO TO RUN PLAY for many players - I have seen guys run this play to the outside with spd backs - and gets consistant succusseful yards against run stop- 4-6 defenses - at times when there is no way the defense was thinkn pass (and would NOT be fooled by the QB drop step at all)... same goes for the inside handoff from muli wide reciever sets...

The prolification of the inside handoff Is getting pretty crazy - REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY WR THE OFFENSE COMES OUT WITH, i generally stay in a base 3-4 defense until 3rd and long UNLESS the other team goes to an empty backfield (in which case they diont have a RB to hand the ball to!) !!!! The reason for that - is if I PLAY A NICKEL OR DIME (LIKE I SHOULD COUNTER WITH IN A MULTI wr SET) - THE INSIDE HANDOFF IS AN 3-4 YARD GAIN! - hell - even with a base 3-4 its still can be a solid play (even though with th 4 LB on the field tryn to be blocked by 4 WRs - this should result into a loss of 2 EVERY TIME out of general principal!) - of course playn with 4 LB vs a 4 wr set opens me up vs the pass - but its the only way u can consistantly have success vs the inside handoff in a multi wr set is to play with a base defense - so i am stuck running down WRs with LBs...

My point is - the draw and inside handoff in a multi wr set - works too well in madden - and if u find that the bulk of your run plays are from this sort of play... I wouldnt say it was a glitch - but i am startn to think its CHZ... its just sad to think that your best run play could be form a 4 wr set - Vince Lombardi is rolling in his grave when he sees this... - makes my runs from strong, eye and offset eye look like the WISHBONE when u compare it to running form a 4 wr set!...

I know this is a popular strategy in the group - and i am making myself a target - but C`├Ęst la vie! besides - clearly some plame has top go on EA sports shoulders - why is it so hard to make the fundementals of football traslate in this game


Last edited by GREENERRRR on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by txboy05 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:57 am

i totally agree, i love how guys drive all the way down to my 5 yard line just to jump in 4 wide and do a draw to score a td. drives me crazy
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by kavorka2 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:01 am

I use it when people using the LBs ar very aggresive. If they think its pass, they they run back so fast its an easy gain. Just playing towards opponents tacticts

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by falconfansince81 on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:01 am

thats why i use it on like 2nd and longs...i think you can even attest to that greener from our games...at least i'd think since you haven't criticized my gameplay at all this year despite having no luck when we play, i'd like to think i run the draw logically. i DO agree with you though, some people like to just call a draw and ice skate around the oline with a fast RB just cause the D gets sucked into 'holding cell's' and can't move. i play A LOT of guys who run nothing but 3 and 4 wide the entire game with their only run plays being a draw...but this is madden, and although we try to emulate NFL football there comes a time to adjust. crash the line out, contain both ends...problem sovled. my usefull tip o' the day!
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:06 am

I agree and disagree with you bro.

First, A LOT of guys use the draw, myself included. Primarily because most guys throw the ball all the time anyway, so obviously people are going to be primarily looking for the pass. So the draw is an effective weapon. If the game was played with a more realistic run/pass ratio, draws would be less effective. There was never a time where I was expecting draw, and it went for a sizeable gain. The only times I see draws work are when I'm not expecting it, or my opponent isn't expecting it.

As far as inside handoffs go...A. You 100% did that against me last time we played. You came out 3 wide 80% of our game with the slot WR on the wide side of the field and if I came out in a base set, you sent your slot on a flag route (may have been an outside slant not sure, I just know the route went up and angled outside) but if I came out in nickel or dime you ran it between the tackles (not draws, but inside runs). I didn't see a problem with it.

Spreading the defense is a legitimate strategy used in all levels of football (maybe not so much in Pop Warner because little kids are shitty passers). Numerous NFL teams use it, as well as college teams. If the defense goes big, and plays for the run, you pass, if they go small and play for the pass, you run. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Otherwise I would have complained when you did it to me. There's no glitches involved, no exploits or anything like that. It's simply playing matchup games, which is great strategy.

Nothing about draws, or running inside from spread sets is unstoppable at all. It's just a strategy that you need to adjust to on the defensive end. And trust me, 2 man under from 4-6, 4-3, or 3-4 will stop any and everything. Trust me, I've lost to it in 5 of the last 6 games I played...and I tried everything from spreading the D to tightening it up.
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by bigbuddah on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:15 am

i agree and disagree also. the only dis agreement comes from when im up by 28 points or sealing the game and they are stacking the box so i cant run. its a good change of pass play specially if u have been passing on first down. it makes ppl play honest IMO...ima cowboys fan and we run like 5 draws a game so thats what i do i try and run 5 draws a game. if the middle is clogged i do take it outside but i try and run them as drawn. as far as the goalline running 4 wide offtackles...idk man...cowboys run shotgun on th goalline also and it literally pisses me the fuck off...im a runner inside the 5 but idk man cant see a rule being made on this 1

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by imthatcrack on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:23 am

+1

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by mblammers on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:21 am

I HATE draws. I hate them in real life, and I hate them on Madden. I think they should be used once, maybe twice a game. I don't think they have NO place in a gameplan, but they should be for surprise, not a bread and butter play. Bill Parcells was a master of calling them at the right times with the Giants.
Like Buddah, I'm a Cowboys fan too, and it seems like they run a draw more like 8 or 9 times a game! It is one of my biggest beefs with Jason Garrett's offense. To me it just seems like such a pussy way to try and run.
As far as madden goes, I think Cheddah's point about the pass/run ratio is a good one. It is very effective b/c everyone expects pass b/c everyone passes. lol.
I'm not sure whether it's cheese. I kind of lean towards no. If you're getting beat by draws...adjust! Yes it is lame, and offends my football aesthetic, but ultimately it is on the D to stop. It is also kind of a risky play too, cause if the defense guesses right or a d-lineman blows up the play, 2nd and long suddenly turns into 3rd and fucked.

my .02

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:25 pm

bigbuddah wrote:i agree and disagree also. the only dis agreement comes from when im up by 28 points or sealing the game and they are stacking the box so i cant run. its a good change of pass play specially if u have been passing on first down. it makes ppl play honest IMO...ima cowboys fan and we run like 5 draws a game so thats what i do i try and run 5 draws a game. if the middle is clogged i do take it outside but i try and run them as drawn. as far as the goalline running 4 wide offtackles...idk man...cowboys run shotgun on th goalline also and it literally pisses me the fuck off...im a runner inside the 5 but idk man cant see a rule being made on this 1


RUNNING 5 PLAY A GAME WOULD BE A GREAT WAY TO EMMULATE THE COWBOYS IF WE PLAYED IN A 15 MINUTE lg WITH NO ACCEL CLOCK!!!! I am up for it - u probablyy would be to BB - but i doubt we ould find 30 others... in our scaled down game - where we literally play hallf to a third of a real game - u cant draw the same comparision - the relationship to the amout u run draws to the number of total plays is totall disporptionate...
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by GREENERRRR on Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:46 pm

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:
As far as inside handoffs go...A. You 100% did that against me last time we played. You came out 3 wide 80% of our game with the slot WR on the wide side of the field and if I came out in a base set, you sent your slot on a flag route (may have been an outside slant not sure, I just know the route went up and angled outside) but if I came out in nickel or dime you ran it between the tackles (not draws, but inside runs). I didn't see a problem with it.



just to set the record straight there is a difference between a qb being under ceter (and running a `run`play) and a qb being in shotgun and running an inside handoff... under center (and with a TE on the field - this can be pass run formation - definitely more pass than run - put is a legit run formation - if he was in shotgun - it becomes an absolute pass formation and less so of a run formation (the qb angles to make handoffs is limited to `inside handoffs` - he doesnt have the angle to run a toss or a stretch to attack the edges - and my pointis that these run plays - vs a 4 LB set (or any base defense) - should be absolutely eaten up everytime - without exception - even runs vs a Nicklel - shopuld be a 50 - 50 success rate - but they are way more successfukl tahn they should be...

as far as our game goes - cant remeber the details - but the majority of my runs are with a FB in the backfield, TE and a QB under center - traditional power run foprmations - i dont pussy foot around about my run game - every knows i run the ball - its no secret - and i would say in the majority of games i am still successful vs guys runningthe ball...) - however there are a few players with real axceptional pursuit skills and have the knowledge to counter my POA attack plan - so after i have seen that they demonstate thgis ability - i will go to a 3 wr 1 te 1 rb or 2 wr 2 te 1 rb set to MAKE THEM AT LEAST CONSIDER that i may pass the ball!!! especially when guys play 4-6 vs me and blitz the power run lanes! AND I MAKE SURE MY QB IS ALWAYS UNDER CENTER - SO I CAN USE ALL 8 HOLES AS A POTENTIAL POINT OF ATTACK (and i adjust my play presnap to giuve my offenbsive line the best possible blocking angle - everytime - its not to confuse the AI of the defense - simply done for a better blocking angle or as a decoy so u think i am making an adjustmnent - when i am really not - in that regard i am just tryn to keep yopu honest....) - U will also notice that i am always under center as well... My point is though -as whole - if the VAST MNAJORITY of your run plays are DRAWS and INSIDE HANDOFFS - i think its lame - man up and have your run plays WITH A FB in your backfield at least for 20% of your run calls!!!! (u know those players that nobody values at all - they do have some benefit of u know how to use them)
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by bigbuddah on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:18 pm

GREENERRRR wrote:
bigbuddah wrote:i agree and disagree also. the only dis agreement comes from when im up by 28 points or sealing the game and they are stacking the box so i cant run. its a good change of pass play specially if u have been passing on first down. it makes ppl play honest IMO...ima cowboys fan and we run like 5 draws a game so thats what i do i try and run 5 draws a game. if the middle is clogged i do take it outside but i try and run them as drawn. as far as the goalline running 4 wide offtackles...idk man...cowboys run shotgun on th goalline also and it literally pisses me the fuck off...im a runner inside the 5 but idk man cant see a rule being made on this 1


RUNNING 5 PLAY A GAME WOULD BE A GREAT WAY TO EMMULATE THE COWBOYS IF WE PLAYED IN A 15 MINUTE lg WITH NO ACCEL CLOCK!!!! I am up for it - u probablyy would be to BB - but i doubt we ould find 30 others... in our scaled down game - where we literally play hallf to a third of a real game - u cant draw the same comparision - the relationship to the amout u run draws to the number of total plays is totall disporptionate...

I don't think that draws should be ur main run. That being said 3 or 4 draw plays out of 20 rush attempts isn't that bad...in the redzone idk..I run draws out of single back not to much out of shotgun

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by Mcnair2wycheck on Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:20 am

Hey Greener are you like me? In 90% of my undercenter plays I initially call a run and then formation audible to a pass if I choose not to run.

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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:04 am

Mcnair2wycheck wrote:Hey Greener are you like me? In 90% of my undercenter plays I initially call a run and then formation audible to a pass if I choose not to run.


i do that sometimes orvice versa - depends on myt playbook and the set if audiblkes i have available
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:18 am

sam22smith wrote:
Mcnair2wycheck wrote:Hey Greener are you like me? In 90% of my undercenter plays I initially call a run and then formation audible to a pass if I choose not to run.

No. Greenerr comes out in run 100% of the time. 90% is for homos.

well not sure about that... but seeing tht thjis game is dominated with the pass - i think my strategy of run 1st is a definite minority and may make game planning form me harder and give guys "less reps" in tryn to stop my prefferred strategy...

I m a traditionalist in my football views... you know guys were complaining that guys passs way to much? (meaningthat the run pass ratio is not SIM)... In mullets klg i had a couple guys actually complain THAT I RUN TO MUCH! I have changed my gameplan to more balanced with the pass (mainly becvause guys were consistantly stacking 9 in the box and necessity dictated that i have a pass threat) - but i would definitely like to see every1 run the ball more - and not the gratuitous draw play or inside handoff from shotgun... but thats just the way i view the game - a lil old-school in that mentality - i think u should have at least 20-25% traditional run plays - particulaily if you are ahead in the game...

as aside note... i think the accel clock really handicaps players with a run 1st perspective - i KNOW 100% FOR SURE - in DW lg with 7 minute quarters and an accel clock - i could have an opening drive that takes the entire HALF! (i have already had a gm where my opponent only had 1 possession in the 1st half - and i did this inadvertainltly) - if i actually tried to run clock (which i notice some guys try to do vs me - and for the record i dont try to do vs other people - iits just a characteristic of a un 1st strategy - and is part of the reason i am startn to use a no huddle strategy to ellimnate the effects of accel clock) - but if i tried to run clock- i could have a possession that took an entire half in DW LG - problem is i havent had a gm in that LG where it was "meaningless" (the competitin is tight - WHCIH IS AN ABSOLUTE CREDIT TO THE LG - so doing this to prove a point would ultimately be self defeating) - besides - i recognize i am the minority - and unfortunately the minority perspective gets sacrificed - and i am cool with that
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by sam22smith on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:28 am

I like playing you because it's different. I wish I could run like that. It seems that your guys are always running downhill for some reason. If I don't call run blitzes and attack the LOS with my LB's then they will just get steam rolled. I would rather have someone burn me on a big pass play than get the ball jammed down my throat on 10 running plays in a row.

I try to run between the tackles but some games the D-line just sheds there damn blocks immediately and I have nothing to work with.



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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by MoWarrior79 on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:50 pm

I hardly ever do draws they dont work for me and they never really work when people do them to me.
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Re: Lame run plays - draws & inside handoffs from multi WR sets

Post by sam22smith on Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:44 pm

They work for me when I'm really letting it loose with the passing game and guys start dropping 8 in coverage.
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