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HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

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HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:19 am

I have seen this kind of play oiccur more and more in tge MG... and i want to be clear what i am describing...

I AM NOT REFFERRING TO PLAYS where a guy runs a deep route and u throw a ball where he catches the ball OVER THE SHOULDER and on the run!!!!

WHAT I AM REFFERING TO IS: plays where you send WR deep downfield... throw a raINBOW PASS - and user catch a JUMP BALL...

I realize that it takes "stick skills" to do this - BUT is it SIM??? - Idk too may qbs who would throw into COVERAGE LIKE THIS - IN FACT unless it a desperation HAIL MARY - nobody would intentionally do this...

the problem is: for the defense THE RISK REWARD DiLEMA... iF you user control and miss the ball - 95% of the time the WR is going to get a TD.... If the WR user controls and misses - OH WELL - TRY AGAIN ON 2ND DOWN!!!!


Personally i think its an aspect of the game that we could do withoput and takes away SIM play...
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by bjcole26 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:24 am

LMAO... i like the title.... Does the heave and hope work better with a more accurate qb or THP?
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by Fr8trainShane on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:30 am

I don't user catch any passes.... well, maybe 1% but the last thing we need to be doing is outlawing user catches...

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by surfnturf90 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:40 am

I'm confused about what exactly you are describing.

Are you talking about a rocket catch like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I843CQBZiU

or just a user catch on a deep ball with the receiver still running downfield, towards the correct endzone?

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:42 am

Fr8trainShane wrote:I don't user catch any passes.... well, maybe 1% but the last thing we need to be doing is outlawing user catches...


never would outlaw user catchges... what i am sayn is that the HEAVE and HOPE is bs - they intentionall are tyhrowing JUMP BALLS - they let their recievers get down field than THROW A RAINDOW PASS - and look to make a play - and if they dont try again on 2nd down - and if they dont gets the 2nd time... try again on thrird down.,,,. if they dont their - u punt... BUT GENERALLY THEY CATCH 1 EVERY 3 MINIMUM - the delema is the HUGE PUNISHMENT for the defense of missing a user play.... if they fail to make a play - ITS A TD FOR THE OFFENSE - if the offense misses - its just imcomplete and try again!
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:47 am

surfnturf90 wrote:I'm confused about what exactly you are describing.

Are you talking about a rocket catch like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I843CQBZiU

or just a user catch on a deep ball with the receiver still running downfield, towards the correct endzone?


well who knows? - possibly could be RC - but that doesnt hoild any weight around here because guys just say " no it was a user catch" - WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS GUYS intentionally throwing jump balls on rainbpow pass - 40 yards+ downfield... but your right- they could use the same tactic in RC too... ITS LITERALLY LIKE A HAIL MARY - but they dont have as many WRS runnin the same area - so their may be only 1 or 2 DB's defending as well...


it just seems absurd to me and totally UNSIM to throw the ball INTENTIONALLY IN COVERAGE - regardless of height and jumping advanatges - u may do such a pass in the end zone like on a timing route - but teams dont gameplan - HALL MARY PASSES!
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by phantomshark on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:49 am

Don't know how you'd ever regulate against it. I have never done this on purpose except in hail mary type situations at the end of the half or the game, but enough of my passes end up being kinda like this just because I don't read the D, or I'm stepping backwards instead of stepping into the throw, or I'm getting hit.

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by surfnturf90 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:53 am

Well feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I just looked up "rocket catch madden 2011" on youtube, and all of the videos were of a receiver running a deep route (streak or corner usually), the QB throwing a bullet pass, and then the user switching to the WR, squaring him to the line of scrimmage, and jumping as the ball gets close to them. Which sounds exactly like what you are describing, except you said they lob it instead of bullet the pass, I don't know if that makes it technically a rocket catch or not though.

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by phantomshark on Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:18 am

Rocket catches per say do not exist any more, in the old days if you triggered the rocket catch animation, there was no way to defend it. This year the defender has the same chance to catch the ball as the receiver. But in all cases, you couldn't rocket catch a lob pass, unless I'm mistaken.

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by falconfansince81 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:56 am

why can't you counter it again? you should have a defender close enough to user switch and hold down L2 and triangle to intercept...even a swat will work 95% of the time. at some point you HAVE to take control of the defender and make a play yourself, never trust the cpu to do anything other than tackle.
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by phantomshark on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 am

falconfansince81 wrote:why can't you counter it again? you should have a defender close enough to user switch and hold down L2 and triangle to intercept...even a swat will work 95% of the time. at some point you HAVE to take control of the defender and make a play yourself, never trust the cpu to do anything other than tackle.

I thought triangle was catch, what does L2 do?

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by Dominator1291985 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:31 am

L2 squares you DB up to the ball so so he jumps it's actually @ the ball not him diving sideways & air balling the easy INT

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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:17 am

falconfansince81 wrote:why can't you counter it again? you should have a defender close enough to user switch and hold down L2 and triangle to intercept...even a swat will work 95% of the time. at some point you HAVE to take control of the defender and make a play yourself, never trust the cpu to do anything other than tackle.


your right.... IF U MAKE THE PLAY - the problem is if u dont make a play - ITS A TD FOR THE OFFENSE... My problems is that the FEAVE and HOPE - is not SIM because no QB would ever throw into covberage INTEBNTIONALLY hoping their WR would make a play - it just doesnt happen - and now we ghiot guys DOING THIS CONSISTANTLY - and either making a nice play with a USER catch or hoping the defender takes control and misses -

i think therir is a huge advantage to the offense... and i am cool with it hapopening once or twice a gamne -0 BUT WHEN ITS A PLAYERS PRIMARY GAME PLAN - its gets rediculous - and without a doub is NOT SIM
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by jmojsoski on Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:54 am

Really? Trying to dicate how many times someone is throwing a go route? Kind of hard to do green.. Also if you were getting stops I really doubt we would see this post.. Much like the fake FG rant, you posted because you got burnt... And when people throw in coverage isn't that your job as a d coorinator? Getting the o to make tough throws... Sounds like your not making plays, instead punishing others for there risky behavior shouldn't you be figuring out ways to make them pay for throwing into coverage
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by falconfansince81 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:11 pm

jmo makes a good point, but so does greener...no its not very sim to throw a hail mary every play trying to trigger a spec catch animation. but like jmo said, you should be able to defend that pretty easily by bringing a zone blitz or user playing the ball. always up for a lab green if you want to practice defending it...
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by jmojsoski on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:32 pm




Also, this is just one Wide out, i can find many highlights of wide receivers making spectacular catches....and not rocket catches... Its kinda funny Qb's throw into more coverage than you think green, Take for example Vincent Jackson and Side Rice, they do not have blazing speed but in 09 they were the best at the deep ball because they way they attacked the ball in the air and made crazy catches in traffic. If you do not believe me, i will be glad to post there highlights just to prove it happens more often then you think. But there are a number of receivers that make these tough catches... The user catch and jump ball is the closes thing to using "Athletic ability in Madden".. Whats the point of having a 6'5 75 speed WR who can not go up and get the ball? What else is he good for, he can't create separation because of his speed, so essentially you would throw into coverage every time you target him? So what purpose would he serve?

Last of all, if you make a rule limiting go routes aka "heave and hope" whats stopping you from making a rule concerning crossing routes? or OUT routes or screens or running plays, or post patterns... All i'm saying a rule like this would just open the flood gates...
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by bjcole26 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:58 pm

JMO watching the video of Brandon Marshall, i was suprised to see Kyle Orton actually look like an NFL qb with a couple of throws.... I think Marshall is sometimes underated based on his bad attitude but MAN some of those highlights show that he was a BEAST in Denver.
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Re: HEAVE and HOPE is it SIM?

Post by phantomshark on Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:08 pm

Dominator1291985 wrote:L2 squares you DB up to the ball so so he jumps it's actually @ the ball not him diving sideways & air balling the easy INT

Oh, ok, only needed if you have auto-strafe off I assume.

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