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The Depth Chart

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The Depth Chart

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:34 pm

One of the biggest complaints I've been getting and seeing for myself, is that people have been putting players at WR that don't belong there on the depth chart. I figured I'd explain what happens so anyone who does it, but doesn't understand what it's doing to your opponent will know


The depth chart:
When a TE is at WR3, any 3wr set (singleback normal, shotgun 3 wide, etc) comes up as 2wr 2te, 1rb
When a rb is at WR3, any 3wr set comes up as 2wr, 1te, 2 rb

These make players think you're in a regular set, like I-form, I-Right/Left.

if they're higher it's even worse:

When a TE is at WR1 or WR2, ANY 2wr set comes up as 1WR, 3TE, 2RB (looks like a tight set, like I-tight, strong 2TE, I-2te, etc)...any 3wr set comes up as 2wr, 1te, 1rb (looks like Singleback Ace, a few others I can't think of)

My opinion, this is super lame. You're giving yourself a competitive advantage. I know a lot of guys use the excuse of "Well I got 2 TEs that are good so I wanna put them on the field"...there's formations for that, you can also motion them out. "Well, teams in the NFL use this running back (or TE) at WR"...no they don't...there is not a single RB or TE listed on a depth chart anywhere in the NFL as a 3rd or 4th WR. "Well, I only have 3 WR"...pick up another one.

What I'm saying is, the group is here for more than just competition, so why would you want your opponents handicapped? If your goal is to be the best, why would you need to hamper your opponent to get a W. You don't see any of the top guys like FF, Jmo, Kight using lame stuff like that to get an advantage over their opponents. I understand that the playcall screen being stupid is not your fault, but it's also not your opponent's fault. It's not something that NEEDs to be done. Play straight up, and either win or lose. But at least you're doing it respectably.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by phantomshark on Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:43 pm

To me this is a ridiculous argument. If there's 2 TEs on the field match up against 2 TEs, whether or not one is lined up on the line or split out. If this was somehow bad, then you couldn't use the Saints playbook among others - they have specific formations that line up TEs in the slot or the HB out wide.

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Child_Please4285 on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:01 pm

phantomshark wrote:To me this is a ridiculous argument. If there's 2 TEs on the field match up against 2 TEs, whether or not one is lined up on the line or split out. If this was somehow bad, then you couldn't use the Saints playbook among others - they have specific formations that line up TEs in the slot or the HB out wide.
many formations have TE as slot receivers thats not the point he's trying to make these formations dont mess with the D play calling screen i can remember times where BIGMULLET would have a TE at WR spoy 1 and 2. On 3rd and short it would say something like 3TES 2RBS 0WRS im thinking he in goal line so i call a big formation on D to stop the run but in actuallty he would be coming out in a shotgun formation 4 wide receivers it was pretty lame
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by bjcole26 on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:18 pm

I agree Cheddah... This is VERY lame...I have been seeing more and more of this... It appears 2 wr, 2 rb and 1 te only to see 4 wr set with Reggie Bush or CJ Spiller out on the far left..
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by surfnturf90 on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:33 pm

phantomshark wrote:To me this is a ridiculous argument. If there's 2 TEs on the field match up against 2 TEs, whether or not one is lined up on the line or split out. If this was somehow bad, then you couldn't use the Saints playbook among others - they have specific formations that line up TEs in the slot or the HB out wide.

Would you really not want to call a different defense if you knew your opponent was in a 3 wide shotgun, as opposed to the 1 WR tight I Form that it looked like from the playcall screen?

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by phantomshark on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:49 pm

My point is, if you are playing vs the Saints playbook and you see 2WR, 2TE, 1RB could be a single back Ace. Or could be the shotgun formation where they have a TE, a TE in the slot, and the backup HB split wide. You won't know until they break the huddle. Same thing here. You don't know the formation until they break the huddle. Same thing in real life, and I'll use the Jets, since I watch every game. If you see Keller and Hartsock it could be an I form with Hartsock as the FB. Could be a 3-wide single with Keller in the slot. Or could be 4-wide with Hartsock split out and Keller in the slot (no idea why they split out Hartsock but they do).

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by T-MAN-13-RHP on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:24 pm

think of it as this.. i know its lame to have a hb or te out as a wideout but in REAL football does the offense say after they pick a play "1wr 2te 2rb"? no. i know what you are saying, but im just saying madden should think about taking away the thing of seeing what your opponent has lined up with. it doesnt happen in real life so why have it in the game. but as i said before i understand what you are stating.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Child_Please4285 on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:34 pm

actually they do the defense is allowed 10 secs to matchup u with the O packages half the reason y jersey numbers are position based
T-MAN-13-RHP wrote:think of it as this.. i know its lame to have a hb or te out as a wideout but in REAL football does the offense say after they pick a play "1wr 2te 2rb"? no. i know what you are saying, but im just saying madden should think about taking away the thing of seeing what your opponent has lined up with. it doesnt happen in real life so why have it in the game. but as i said before i understand what you are stating.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by T-MAN-13-RHP on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:37 pm

oh my bad lol, ive watched games but i havent really payed much attention to before the snap. my bad
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by saastar on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:13 am

i do understand ur point cheddah it is lame.. but i dont think it should be the person's fault 100% of the time that is calling the plays.. bc ill use myself for example.. i always and i do mean always have 6 wrs till fill all 6 wr spots in my depth chart no matter what.. but i recently use the TB playbook and out of that playbook i like to use what should read 3wr 2rb set of shotgun.. but everytime my te jermaine gresham, fred davis, shaun nelson whoever i have as my starting te comes out in the slot postion.. so that means on my opponents sreen its say 2wr 1te 1rb making u think i formation or something like that but really its an shotgun set.. but is that my fault??? NO!! bc like i said before i have 6 wrs played in the 6 wr spots they are suppose to be in.. i never switch my packages from normal.. or another example i select again out of TB playbook out of shotgun their version of bunch set.. in which will probably read 3wr 1te 1rb.. but i know for an fact when i break the huddle my te will be lined up in the 4th wr spot and not be on the line of scrimmage... but again i have 6 wrs in depth chart set but it shouldnt be mite fault for coming out 3wr and te in an 4wr set and it only reading 3wr set.. same thing with TB 5 wr set.. its actually an 4wr set is what it will come up by my te is again lined up as the 5wr and not on the line of scrimmage..

the point im trying to make is before anyone just thinks im not making sense is that some people are not doing it on purpose.. some people do have 6 wrs in all 6 wr spots on the depth chart.. its just mite be the playbook they use that makes it need read the way its suppose to.. i mean it is lame bc it screws up the defense's calling.. but its not interally the offensive guy's fault by the examples i made.

i know this post wasnt made about me.. just putting my 2 cents in

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:22 am

CP mentioned that a couple messages up. If it's something that happens as a result of the playbook having a TE in the slot in a shotgun play, the playcall screen reads it correctly.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by phantomshark on Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:36 am

Cheddah_Cheez wrote:CP mentioned that a couple messages up. If it's something that happens as a result of the playbook having a TE in the slot in a shotgun play, the playcall screen reads it correctly.

Reads it correctly. As in there's a TE on the field.

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:38 am

phantomshark wrote:
Cheddah_Cheez wrote:CP mentioned that a couple messages up. If it's something that happens as a result of the playbook having a TE in the slot in a shotgun play, the playcall screen reads it correctly.

Reads it correctly. As in there's a TE on the field.

No it reads it as a WR, because he's lined up in a WR's spot
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by phantomshark on Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:50 am

Wrong. I just labbed it, and picked a play in the Saints 'Gun empty Y-Saints' PB, and it shows 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 HB, even though it has the HB lined up wide left. I then picked a play in the 'Spread Y-Slot' book which lines up a TE in the slot of a 4 wide and it still shows 3WR, 1TE, 1HB. So wtf is the difference in just calling this formation constantly, or having a TE as the 4th WR and calling a standard 4 wide play? Nothing.

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:18 am

phantomshark wrote:Wrong. I just labbed it, and picked a play in the Saints 'Gun empty Y-Saints' PB, and it shows 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 HB, even though it has the HB lined up wide left. I then picked a play in the 'Spread Y-Slot' book which lines up a TE in the slot of a 4 wide and it still shows 3WR, 1TE, 1HB. So wtf is the difference in just calling this formation constantly, or having a TE as the 4th WR and calling a standard 4 wide play? Nothing.

The fact that if you put him there in the depth chart and your running back in one of those slots 2, you can be 4 wide and it will show something completely different and misleading.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by saastar on Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:26 am

i just hope rules just dont start getting added now that there is no governing council... which there really wasnt one anyway

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by GREENERRRR on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:10 am

saastar wrote:i just hope rules just dont start getting added now that there is no governing council... which there really wasnt one anyway

we are tryn to fix that - the game is broke in this regard - just treyn to make the best possioibkle solution -0 is it gonna make every happy -0 IT NBEVER DOES
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by ezweightloss on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:36 am

when dallas clark is healthy they use him as a 3rd receiver on multiple occasions, also i use wr's at my top 3 but usually a tight end at my 4th and sometimes a rb at my 5th, if this is outlawed (which i think is retarded beyond belief) i might just give up on the mg cuz it's not like we are playing the game anymore, putting them in a 1 or 2 slot is unacceptable, a 3 slot is questionable but beyond that it's stupid to call it unfair, and also there are times where primary wr's get fatigued forcing a rb or te into a 3,4,5 slot wrs

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by jmojsoski on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:06 am

why can't you just have the WR's in there designated slots, and pick packages that inserts the the TE in the Slot and etc.... To me the Depth chart crap is annoying and the only reason the saints have the HB split out wide and the TE in the slot is because they have specific packages for that kinda of stuff, however, the depth chart at the WR position is filled entirely with WR's.. Why can't you just do that, fill you depth chart with WR and them call specific packages within a formation to put your TE wide...Why can't you do that... And if there is a rule regarding this and you quit, that shows that this was your "bread and butter" and your so call advantage... and you say well whats the difference? the Defense in real life gets 10 seconds to adjust to the formation at the LOS, so if they wanted to make a quick sub they can, we can not do that in madden.


Last edited by jmojsoski on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Delmas26 on Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:30 pm

jmojsoski wrote:why cant you just have the WR's in there designated slots, and pick packages that inserts the th TE in the Slot and etc.... To me the Depth crap in annoying and the only reason the saints have the HB split out wide and the TE in the slot is because they have packages for that kinda of stuff, however, the depth at the WR position is filled entirely with WR's.. Why can't you just do that, fill you depth with WR and them call specific packages within a formation to put your TE wide...Why can't you do that... And if there is a rule regarding this and you quit, that shows that this was your "bread and butter" and your so call advantage... and you say well whats the difference? the Defense in real life gets 10 seconds to adjust to the formation at the LOS, so if they wanted to make a quick sub they can, we can not do that in madden.

+1 and thats why their are all of these complaints from the same people....

They are openly admitting to using a 88speed TE at WR1...which is unrealistic...

Kellen Winslow is never going to get open on a CB1...whos semi-big @ near 6'0.

Winslow wont out run them...and the jump ball wont be effective...its unrealistic cheese.....

These people know what they are doing...and you cannot matchup against the play-call screen in certain circumstances.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by jmojsoski on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:06 pm

Picking Packages that split the TE and HB out wide is okay because its within your PB, however, setting up your depth chart with those two position players in WR position is lame.. For example this would by acceptable:

I pick a a shotgun play wide it may read, 4WR 1HB 0TE, however, in that play there is a package called regular, where the split the TE and FB in the slot wide out spots, so it reads 2WR 2HB 1TE. This is a acceptable because its a specific package there is no manipulation of the depth chart. You should play within your playbook and not try to create an outside advantages.

Also, to not further fool the D on goal plays, linemen can be receivers in a goal line packages but have to announce themselves eligible to the ref who makes a public announcement.. giving the D time to adjust...
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by falconfansince81 on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:10 pm

heres how i have to adjust to this, which can be a real pain in the ass. when i see 2te 2rb 2wr i'll go 46 normal, say its a base like cover 1 man. when they come out 4 wide or trips bunch i have to make A LOT of manual adjustments...i man both safeties to the inside TE's and put the OLB in a deep zone, and switch off the other OLB who was manned to the TE and user him in a hook zone.

its just 3 extra steps that shouldn't be necessary...but since madden can't just tell us the formation it is what it is, but in phantom's defense whats the difference if he comes out in i form and audibles to a shotgun play? we'd have to make that illegal too. pain in the ass or not, its still about defensive adjustments and while i agree having rb's and te's as wr's in your depth chart is kind of cheesy...there are more than enough ways to cover it.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by Delmas26 on Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:20 pm

falconfansince81 wrote:heres how i have to adjust to this, which can be a real pain in the ass. when i see 2te 2rb 2wr i'll go 46 normal, say its a base like cover 1 man. when they come out 4 wide or trips bunch i have to make A LOT of manual adjustments...i man both safeties to the inside TE's and put the OLB in a deep zone, and switch off the other OLB who was manned to the TE and user him in a hook zone.

its just 3 extra steps that shouldn't be necessary...but since madden can't just tell us the formation it is what it is, but in phantom's defense whats the difference if he comes out in i form and audibles to a shotgun play? we'd have to make that illegal too. pain in the ass or not, its still about defensive adjustments and while i agree having rb's and te's as wr's in your depth chart is kind of cheesy...there are more than enough ways to cover it.

Yeah, you do that....and if your playing J-Mo or CP...they hit you 60yards on a deep bomb...with no deep safety help.

The only saving grace about this...is....J-Mo and CP wont do gay subs like that...because they A-know its gay and B- know they dont have to act/play gay...to beat us

The guys who use it...are under-talented players for the most part...who do it to create an advantage for themselves...because they struggle to throw the ball when the opponent knows its PASS.
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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by ezweightloss on Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:15 pm

if i come out in 3 wr 1 te 1 rb, you should probably expect pass regardless of the kind of formation used, i never get out of the "normal" setting in my playbook, so why make everything a big hassle. if you mic up i'll be happy to tell the formation i'm coming out in i guess. T_T

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Re: The Depth Chart

Post by MoWarrior79 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:15 am

im in 8 lg's and ive never put a TE on the wr depth chart....and i think theres only 1 formation in my playbook shotgun 4 wide that automatically put the Te in but im sure it reads to you guys 3wr 1te 1rb
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