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I need opinions Because I am curious

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I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Vista3131 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 am

Just played a game (half a game) The Situation is this 1st Quarter game is tied at 7-7 he is on MY 48 with a 4th and 7. He goes for it in this situation.

My Opinion be it right or wrong. This is a obvious punting situation and I consider it lobby play. The reason I am in leagues like the Madden group is to get away from Lobby play.

I am I off base here? I know it is not against rules but......come on. This would NEVER happen ina NFL game.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by ezweightloss on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:03 am

i took factors into consideration, more than likely i would end up with a net of 28 yard on a punt so i decided that i would rather just go for it and give up the yards if i didnt make it. i dont like punting from the other side of the field. it's a waste in my eyes. thats how i run my teams.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by saastar on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:32 am

yeah its sorta of risk and reward bc yeah he could punt it and try to pin u down inside 5 but if he dont punt it right it will be a touch back... and he would only gain 28 yds from where u would of started.. i think its just got to be a coaches decision.. and the cirumanstances.. i mean i would have probably punted in that situation but people think and coach different..

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by jmojsoski on Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:51 am

high risk high reward....and your quote "This would NEVER happen ina NFL game." really can't be used to justify whether it is sim or not. I only say that because many of the things that nfl teams do would be regard as unsim if replicated in madden, for example manning no huddle offense, another example would be the Arizona cardinals fake field goal against the broncos last week (for crying out loud they were own the 28 yard line, chip shoot of david ackers right? if it was up to greenerr that would have been a cheez ball move based on his new post) Get my point.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by sam22smith on Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:48 am

I trend to agree with Vista on this particular example. Within your opponents 40 to mid field I can see going for it on 4th and 1 - but anything beyond that should be a punt. And anything on the other side of mid field should be a punt. Unless of course you are down big, late,etc.

But also think we should allow a limited number of no huddle plays outside of the two minute offense - similar to the "same play" guideline. I don't use it myself but I played a straight shooter that used it in a Coltesque way last night and I find that perfectly fine.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Vista3131 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:52 am

So what everyone is saying is that 4th and 7 in the first quarter it is perfectly acceptable to go for it in this situation, It would not be considered Lobby ball but a high risk reward situation. Even though you would NEVER see it done in a real NFL game here it is totally cool!

Excellent Good luck to the Madden Group and your lobby play.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Vista3131 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:10 am

Also what I failed to mention is that I had him 3rd and 20 from his own 39 and I played a 3 deep zone just so hopefully he could not pick up the 20 yards and he ended up throwing underneath for a gain of 13.

But then he goes for it. I will not play lobby ball or be a part of a group that does. If I want to play lobby I will go and play in the lobby.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by jmojsoski on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:24 am

how would you feel, if, someone ran nothing but a no huddle offense?
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Eliminate the rule altogether

Post by mblammers on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:13 pm

It really pisses me off when someone goes for it unrealisitically and MAKES it. However, it is a huge risk for them.
I personally feel like the 4th down rule should be eliminated entirely.
I asked for GREENERRR to explain this rule when I first joined MG and he gave the explaination that because offense is too easy in this game the risk reward factor is not the same as in the nfl.
After playing for awhile, I no longer buy that. I now think that if someone wants to go for it ANYWHERE, ANY TIME. it is ok with me. In the end, those kind of decision will benefit me.
Sure they might convert a few, but in the long run and over the course of a game, I believe it will backfire.
My advice is get over the mental shock of someone going for it and D UP!!!
It is satisfying when you get the stop and the awesome field positiion.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by sam22smith on Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:13 pm

I agree with you on a certain level, Blammers. When I play my friends we actually punt the ball because we play All-Madden and it's retarded to toss up prayers on 4th and 8 from your own 25. However, when I play someone that never punts, it just makes the game a farce. Even if I smoke them because they are idiots that dig themselves into a hole and can't dig out of it - and they end up spiraling into a 30-0 deficit by halftime. The game stinks, and it's hack, lobby play.

Having the rule in place serves to keep those types of idiots from infesting the MG and degrading the quality of play - more than to control straight ballers. IMO- laws are in place not for the good, but for the lawless

That's why the MG is pretty loose - allowing going for it on any 4th down from anywhere after your own 40. I think....

With that said - I think a tighter rule on it would remove the temptation and serve as a good middle ground.

1) Punt from your own side of the field.
2) Punt from the 50-40 in the first half, unless it's 4th and 1 or inches.
3) 40-30 is open game - all day long - that is legit no-mans' land.


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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Deathwish22 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:50 pm

I thought I would chime in on this one. I think its a poor decision vista to base your decision of leaving the Madden group based on 3 peoples opinions. Everytime I've ever played EZ, Cheddah, JMO, CP, and Greener they have always followed the rules and punted when required to or went for it on 4th down at the appropriate time. For you to call this network a "lobby game" style is a Damn insult. I know for a fact I've been through 30 guys in the first three seasons and have always booted or taken care of the guys who refuse to follow the rules. If you're seriously leaving because of 1 rule about punting...then good luck finding another online franchise that is as well established as ours and and actually has rules and guidlines. Poor decision bro.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by ezweightloss on Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:58 pm

and vista stopped me on the 4th down and kept whining, then he accused me of lagging the game and conceded. cmon man! im straight up and play within the rules. and it's not kool that you would blame me for playing within the extent of the rules. and trying to make up your own rules as the game progresses.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by saastar on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:18 pm

i have played ezweightloss 3 times and he never broke any rules or anything.. he played sim the whole game and we had a close battle in out last game that came down to a last second field goal that hit the up right with no time left and i lose by 2.. but i wouldnt call what he did unsim.. i mean he is not at ur 40 but i mean he is past the 50 and if he punts more then likely the ball will go to the back of the endzone and he isnt going to gain any yards to help his defense by giving u the ball at the 20.. i mean i would of punted but thats just me.. but i dont think 1 game should make u quit man.. thats just crazy talk.. i have had worse done to me then a guy going for a 4th and 7 from my 48.. and like deathwish said u wouldnt be able to find many other lgs that would last a long time.. u would find a lg that would last till the playoffs then whoever dont make playoffs will quit the lg and the lg will be down to 12 people by the offseason.. no one will want to take a team they didnt draft and the lg will just go to hell..

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Vista3131 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:47 pm

I am not trying to be a Baby drama queen here. Although one could argue that point. I have been very upfront with why I do things.

I have told you I play because I love to play it a fun factor thing to me. You find one person on here that ever has had a problem with me.

I have no gripe with EZ or anyone that has commented, it is not personal.

To me it is a principal thing, The rule is flawed. Cheddah explained a bunch of acceptable times to go for it. Had My and EZ game been in the 4th Quarter of a tie game. I would have not had a problem because that Is Risk Reward, Game on the line I can understand that late in the game this my be his last shot at winning the game and If he gets stopped he will probably lose game.

If I can see good logic behind a 4th down play I am cool with it. Obviously this is not the first time someone has gone for it on 4th down but in every other case I understood why.

Games are not on the line in the 1st quarter, He tried to rationalize his reasoning as to why he went for it....He should have punted and if a majority of players want to defend it that what he did is acceptable then I don't want to play.


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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by phantomshark on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:57 pm

I told you what my rule would be. 4th and 1 or 4th and inches are ok anywhere, 4th and 2 or 4th and 3 only on opponents side of the field, 4th and more only when losing in 4th quarter.

That being said, with the rules the way they are I will sometimes go for it on opponents side of the field. Not sure about the 4th and 7 here, but 4th and 3 for sure probably. I don't think it was a particularly smart play to go for it, but it's not so bad that I would be upset about it.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:21 pm

I'm not defending EZ's position, nor have I. I think what he did is a stupid move. Even considering to go for it with a 4th and 7 at the position and point in the game is stupid. You'd be hard pressed to find a team in the NFL that would have done that, and the excuse about the net field position is laughable in my opinion because he's not a rookie at this game and knows how to punt the ball with less power, more loft, and towards the sidelines...what I really think is he just thought he could get the first and decided to do it (but that's just my opinion). In fact, some coaches would say if you want to go for it on 4th, then early in the game is the time to do it. But all that being said, he didn't break any rules and if that's how he plays his games then I can understand that (not agree with, but understand), the onus is then on you to stop him and make him pay for it (which you did). If it's something he does consistently then I'd have a problem with it.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by mblammers on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:22 pm

Vista3131 wrote:

Games are not on the line in the 1st quarter, He tried to rationalize his reasoning as to why he went for it....He should have punted and if a majority of players want to defend it that what he did is acceptable then I don't want to play.


I guess this depends on what you mean by "acceptable." Do you mean NOT CHEESE? Do you mean SIM? Do you mean FUN? Obviously you agree that it was within the rules, so it seems like you are talking about something else.

I don't consider what you are describing as CHEESE. He did not exploit a computer glitch or programming error.
I won't defend it as SIM - it is not sim. It likely wouldn't happen very often in the NFL. (Although coaches DO make odd/bad decisions OFTEN - that is one of the reasons they get fired.)
Whether that kind of beviour is FUN, is another matter. If a person is going for it ALL the time ALL over the field, that is annoying and lobby-like. But an occasional gamble to me falls in the category of a quirky caoching style. Maybe he wanted to set an aggressive tone early. Maybe he was bluffing, hoping to force a time-out (BTW that DOES happen in the NFL) and when he saw the defense he decided to go ahead. Maybe he was just making a really unsound football decision. I don't know.
My personal opinion is that GENERALLY speaking, we should not make rules against STRATEGY decisions.
For instance: whether to punt, fake punt, kick a field goal, fake a field goal, go for it, call a timeout, challenge a play, run out of bounds to kick a field goal in a tie game rather than let your opponent get the ball back, etc. etc....
These types of decision are what makes each game different. I am of the general belief that these kinds of coaching decisions ultimately separate the good players from the bad. I don't think it is a good idea to freak out everytime an opponent makes an unorthodox coaching move.
While I don't want to be in a league that would encourage people to play like lobby bums, sometimes coaches do things their own way for their own reasons. I think it is a slippery slope to make rules that take away basic startegy decisions.

Another issue here Vista, is the approach you are taking. It is not fair (or productive) for you to try to hold the league hostage and demand that we either change the rule now (immediately!) or you will quit. C'mon man. You are better than that. You should trust the process, argue your position, and try to get the rule you want in place the right way.
We can't have individuals unilaterlly deciding what rule they will follow just because they feel strongly about it.

One more thing. Don't leave dude. You are a legit player. MG is better WITH you than without you.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by falconfansince81 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:39 pm

i agree with a few other people, arbitrary play call...i personally would rather my opp try and go for it than pin me deep. even if he does get it he still has to throw in my red zone D, and most the time people force passes in those situations leading to turnovers. however, i wouldn't consider it sim either...we CANT compare madden to real life or hold it to the same limitations as the game itself (madden) is flawed, greeners implemented the rules to help achieve a balance. if people start bending the rules eventually the balance is lost and yes, vista, you've essentially got yourself a lobby room game (although w/o the cheese). i've gone for 4th and 15s out of frustration on my opp's 30 (kight lol), and got it...and immediately after i was think 'wow, that was pretty lame' as i waited to get a psn message.
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My Opinion....what what its worth.

Post by Fr8trainShane on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:47 pm

I would have punted. Its the first quarter, the risk far outweighs the reward, and its supposed to be "sim style".
Sure it falls within the rules, but there has to be some common sense to the game play.

For instance: If I'm up on someone by 21 pts or more and its 2nd or 3rd quarter....and they choose to run no huddle. I have no problem with that. Sure, maybe it technically violates a rule.... but common sense tells me that is what a real NFL team would do in that situation.

I think this common sense applies.... The team should have punted, as it is what a real NFL team would do...despite the fact that it falls within the accepted rules.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by Child_Please4285 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:12 pm

Here is my 2 cents in the NFL there is a area i like to call the Dead Zone in which kicking a fg is a huge risk cause its so far and punting is a always logical cause you can end up with a net of around 15 yards. This usually happens around the opponents 35-40 yard line. Because its very easy to kick long fgs in madden this usually happens around the 42-46 yard line so i see why a guy may want to elect to go for it. Also i love to promote SIM play but at the same time i do like to see where you can decide to take a risk sometimes a guy doing it 1 time the whole game i really don't see what the problem is. But when a guy does it all game even if he is winning thats a problem.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by ezweightloss on Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:33 pm

see and with vista play style (run heavy) i'm not scared to give him a few extra yards here or there. i have a good run d, and i had already picked him off for a td already. it seems logical to me. i weighed my options and made a call. yeah maybe it wasnt the best (i didnt make it) but to me if i was offered that same exact situation again i'd go for it again, if i had an opponent like vista or say greener. they focus on ball control so i would do what i have to to counter that.

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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by sam22smith on Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:32 pm

EZ - I don't know you yet but I would like to point out that you were within the rules so you don't need to defend yourself - its definitely a rule issue and shouldn't be personal, as vista has said.

But ona side note if I had Confidence in my d then I would definitely punt in that situation cause I wouldn't want to give him the chance to break offa lucky play and get into field goal range cause he had good field position due to my turnover on downs. I would definitely punt it and make him drive on me. When he can't move the ball he has to punt it back to me and I have good field position. I only go for it on 4th if my defense is helpless and it doesn't matter where my opponentgets the ball - cause he is gonna drive 99 on me.
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Re: I need opinions Because I am curious

Post by MoWarrior79 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:35 pm

Such BS I would be mad to Vista...No coach in the NFL would go for it in that situation...Punt the ball pin him inside the 10 and keep it sim.
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