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QB sub rule?

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QB sub rule?

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:27 pm

Did we ever make a rule about subbing in a qb? I know I play with scrambling qbs but I leave them in every down barring injury. I know we discussed the difficulties that people with 2 qbs cause but idk if we ever came up with a rule. I've had it done to me, although to no effect, but it did cause some big plays that could've swayed the game until I realized what was going on.
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:17 am

This too has cost me IN MORE THAN 1 GAME - but i could not think of a rule that was IMPLEMENTABLE AND FAIR... i am open to any suggestions
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by Rui_F on Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:43 am

I thought we went with not using the sub & the play call section but a actually pausing and doing a depth chart change was needed at least it was more obvious and you couldn't do it on the fly every other play.
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by GREENERRRR on Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:17 am

SOPRRY =- MUST HAVER MISSED THAT POST - but i would support this rule adjustment -= but i guess officially we would need to get the Governing Council to vote on it,,,
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:40 pm

Yea rui I guess that'd work, because at least after a pause I'd know to take a look at the qb when I came out of the huddle.
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by GREENERRRR on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:29 pm

Is this rule suggestion worthy of Governing Council Vote?
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by surfnturf90 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:36 pm

Just gonna throw my 2 cents in cause I need something to distract me from homework.

I don't ever sub QBs, so this doesn't affect me at all, but isn't forcing someone to pause the game to switch their QBs a little drastic? They only have 5 pauses per half (I think, might be per game, I can't remember), and it doesn't seem unreasonable for someone to want to switch quarterbacks more often than that. If they really want to switch between a runner and a thrower every play I see no problem with that, it should make it extremely easy to defend then if you always know what is coming. If you are playing against somebody who does this, just make sure to look at their QB before the snap every play.

As I'm writing this, I realized that if you called a defense thinking one QB was in, and it turned out he had subbed in the other guy, you would probably want to have time to audible to a different defense. What about making a rule that if you switched QBs from the the previous play, you must allow the other player time to audible? Something like, wait at least 10 seconds to snap the ball from the time you break the huddle?

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by GREENERRRR on Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:50 pm

surfnturf90 wrote:Just gonna throw my 2 cents in cause I need something to distract me from homework.

I don't ever sub QBs, so this doesn't affect me at all, but isn't forcing someone to pause the game to switch their QBs a little drastic? They only have 5 pauses per half (I think, might be per game, I can't remember), and it doesn't seem unreasonable for someone to want to switch quarterbacks more often than that. If they really want to switch between a runner and a thrower every play I see no problem with that, it should make it extremely easy to defend then if you always know what is coming. If you are playing against somebody who does this, just make sure to look at their QB before the snap every play.

As I'm writing this, I realized that if you called a defense thinking one QB was in, and it turned out he had subbed in the other guy, you would probably want to have time to audible to a different defense. What about making a rule that if you switched QBs from the the previous play, you must allow the other player time to audible? Something like, wait at least 10 seconds to snap the ball from the time you break the huddle?


tHE ISSUE IS NOT ONLY ON play selection FOR THE DEFENSE - but personel as well - If some1 has Vick as their "alternate QB" - and their main QB is Manning - OBVIOUSLY I WILL KNOW WHEN HE COMES IN! (but if Gerrard was the other QB - its not as clear!)... If i know that a RUNNING QB is coming in =- clearly i wouyld want to have more SPEED IN MY DEFENSIVE PERSONEL - and simplay audibling does not account of rthis...

In at any level of football - the defensive co-ordinato would see such a sunstition aND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE HIS PERSONEL TO HELP DEFEND VS THE RUNNING QB - but currently this is not the case in Madden...

Neverthelss - the point u have about the number of pauses is a legitimate one...

Perhaps if this was part of your game plan - IT WOUOLD BE SPORTSMANLIKE OF YOU TO PLAY WITH A MIC - AND TELL YOUR OPPONENT WHEN U ARE MAKING THAT SUBSTITUTION - not sure if we can mandate a rule there - but something to considewr for our MAdden Ettiquette post...
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by falconfansince81 on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:56 pm

its definately an issue, and sometimes if i'm in 34 and i see vick i have to either negate a zone for a spy whereas if i knew vick was coming in i'd sub in two lb's at end for extra options. the other problem with making a rule is getting the other 85% of the league that doesn't bother reading them to cooperate, so until we get a simulation football game i think we're just going to have to guess and adjust more on the fly with our chosen personnel.
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When is the next council vote?

Post by mblammers on Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:16 pm

I played a game yesterday and in a critical moment got burned on a scramble by Pat White. It was the first time he had made an appearance, and it was on a 3r and 15. His other QB is Carson Palmer.
IMO, we need a rule immediately. This was not a case of someone just preferring a running qb, this was a cheese move in a desperate situation.
It ruins the experience when you're playing a tight game and someone resorts to this kind of gimmickry.

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:23 pm

Agreed blammers. It's one thing if you prefer a scrambling QB like I do, and run in appropriate situations, but I think it's complete bs for someone to sub in a scrambling QB on 3rd and long because they want the opportunity to run with the ball. If by choosing a scrambling QB I'm hampered by a decreased accuracy in normal passing situations, then by choosing a pocket passer, they too should be hampered by slowness (lol) in siutations where they might have to run.
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....

Post by saastar on Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:18 pm

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by surfnturf90 on Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:00 pm

in real life, the defense would be able to see that a different qb had been subbed in and they would be allowed to adjust their personnel to match it. In Madden we can't see this until it is too late, I think it's kind of cheezy to sub in a different qb with the sole intention of running with him because you know the other guy is blitzing.

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......................

Post by saastar on Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:06 pm

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by surfnturf90 on Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:11 pm

yeah i get what your saying, seems like it would be a pain in the ass to make a rule like that though.

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:31 pm

I think it all boils down to being SIM. In the NFL, QBs aren't taken out of the game unless it's a permanent switch due to injury or performance. RBs are subbed all the time, especially in recent years. There's not much you do differently when facing Jacobs compared to CJ. If you think run is coming you try to prevent, the only changes you might make are playing inside or outside, which is ONE adjustment that can easily be made pre-snap. The difference between Chad Pennington and Michael Vick is worlds different. Players might wanna contain and spy, using specific linebackers or ends for that which can't be done pre-snap. You'd have to hot route 2 players for the contain, and another for the spy. That's more button presses than most people can do. Especially since by trying to trick them you're most likely going to snap it quick. In summary, I think it's a cheese move. If you are afraid of the blitz or wanna have the option to run, have a spread/run n gun offense, then you should pick a scrambling QB as your starter. If you want an accurate pocket passer then pick one.

I think the rule should state that if you make a QB sub that is not because of an injury, then that QB should have to remain in the rest of the game...barring injury. This way people won't have to notify, but the defender will know after the first play, and they know they won't get switched on again.
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........................

Post by saastar on Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:48 pm

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by slickmonkyz on Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:01 am

besides... you CAN see which rb is in the game as soon as the huddle breaks.. you cant , however see who the qb is. period.
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by snake_charmer89 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:20 pm

i dont see anything wrong w/ subbing in a qb. buccaneers rotated josh johnson like 5-6 times against 49ers this past sunday

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by G-Villa809 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:51 pm

I think that who ever uses this tactic should use it out of one formation only at least you can some what prepare for it.And for the record i dont use this tactic but used against me alot .

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by phantomshark on Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:03 pm

Would be extremely unsim to require someone to announce a QB switch, or bar them from making it. When the Jets bring in Brad Smith, they always leave Mark Sanchez in too, so you never know which will be at QB until they line up. If it's Smith, you better audible into a scramble-prevention package. I think it's the same thing here, if you are playing someone with a mobile QB as their backup, you better have a play or 2 in audible for a QB scramble, and know the # of the backup.

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by Cheddah_Cheez on Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:09 pm

Snake and Phantom, I think the question you have to ask is how often do you see it on sundays? The jets do that with Brad Smith as a specific package, a select few times in the game. Other than this past Sunday, the Bucs don't swap Freeman and JJ. Point being, just because it happens every once in a while doesn't mean we should allow it. Defensive coordinators have assistants that alert them that specialty players like Smith or JJ are coming in and they send in the appropriate personnel. We don't have that until it's too late. I had a gm with greener last night and I put JJ in as my QB to start the 2nd half (and told him...AND left him in for the rest of the game). His adjustment was a spy, that I STILL torched with JJ. I didn't stop torching him until he put in a LB at the end spot. If I did it in a key spot (say 3rd and long, under 2min, tie game) it's pretty safe to say he'd have been screwed. We can't tell I made that switch until it's too late for me to get a LB subbed in at end. Just because 1 or 2 teams do it in the NFL doesn't mean it should be done here. Especially because not only 1 or 2 teams here would do it, it'd be more like 12 or 15 teams. And they sure as hell don't do it sporadically, they do it on more than half of their key downs. Like I've said before, I'm all for the elimination of a notification, but I think if you make the switch it should be permanent. The more realistic switch that occurs in the NFL is the pulling of a QB. So if you want a scrambler in there fine, but either start them like I do, or sub them in as if you were pulling your starter for being ineffective. Just my opinion.
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by G-Villa809 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:55 pm

the most stupid thing i see people doing is for every formation they sub the QB that's totall BS .IF u dont WANT TO INFORM YOUR OPPONENT of the specific formation your going to use BEFORE the game even starts then stop that back and forth subing bullshit and like my man cheddah said use him from the get go ....tell me where in the hell is that play the JETS use with Smith and Sanchez in this game u cant i didnt think so.

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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by MoWarrior79 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:22 pm

my 2 cents...if you sub a qb it should be permanent and you cant switch back just to keep it sim as possible but part of me agrees with phantom that you should know your opponent and his back qb
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Re: QB sub rule?

Post by snake_charmer89 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:53 am

i dont really care about the rule, but one thing for sure you cant stop me from subbing in a qb to do qb sneak on goaline lol

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